Keep an opponent flat footed?

[Number47]

I'm the DM in my game, and I realized that two of my players might have a powerful combo available, if not something that will come up often.

If they both get initiative over the bad guy(s), the Rogue can get a sneak attack, and the Bard can cast Daze on the bad guy. If the bad guy fails, he cannot take an action on his initiative. Does that mean that he is still flat-footed (and that means the Rogue gets sneak attacks, bad guy denied Dex)?

 

[Crothian]

Yes, the opponent is flat footed until he gets and action. If he can't get an action for some reason, he remains flatfooted.

 

[Number47]

Well, they sure are going to be happy. The characters are first level. The rogue has an initiative bonus of +8, so will probably get initiative. The bard has a charisma of 20, plus spell focus: enchantment. This gives Daze a save DC of 17, which is HUGE for first level opponents.

 

[0-hr]

Pg 278 in the PHB

Characters are flat-footed until their first turns in the inititative cycle.

The Daze spell only makes it so that the dazed person cannot take any actions. It does not make them lose their turn in the inititative cycle. They still get their turn, they just can't take any actions. If they had a spell, or poison, or whatever, that affected them on their turn each round, it would not stop functioning just because they were dazed. They still get a turn, and they become un-flatfooted on their turn; whether or not they take any actions during said turn.

 

[Number47]

Crothian! I expected better from you! I took your word as law.

 

[Crothian]

Crothian! I expected better from you! I took your word as law.

My Bad. Too much Avalanche stuff today, my game's off.

 

[Christian]

Still, once the opponent is Dazed, the characters can move into flanking positions without fear of AoO's. As the group I DM for found out last week. (Then the Rogue scored a critical on his sneak attack and killed the NPC in one blow. That's right-the NPC they were hoping to capture. Bwah-hah-hah!)