Keep your filthy points of light away from me!

[Uzzy]

Let's ignore the fact there's 3 CSS for Forgotten Realms (Grey box, 2e, 3e).

Uh.. yeah? 3 Editions, one for each edition of DnD. It would be a little hard to run the Realms in each edition without it!

 

[kigmatzomat]

Actually, no. You really don't need new CS books for each edition unless you have a metaplot. Even then you need it less for each edition than for every X number of metaplot years. The TSRWotCHasbro approach was to have major metaplot events coincide with, or occur at, editions in the form of RSEs.

But I think RSE isn't even a good term for what they're doing to 4e FR. It's more of a Realm Resetting Event or a History Mooting Event. In 4e the events of 1-3rd ed are as relevant as the Mythal cities were on the Grey box. Meaning, ancient history. Okay, maybe not for the elves but still good enough. It's really not important if the Simbul was a blonde, brunette, or redhead.

And I think FR needs that. It ceased to be the "Forgotten" Realm and became the Known Realm. It's time for things to be Forgotten again so it can be new all over again.

 

[wayne62682]

Joining the thread late, so bear with me if this has already been said:

I think the main issue is that FR should have stayed the way it was (with minor changes to facilitate the 4E changes) and been presented as an alternate campaign framework, in addition to the "Points of Light" concept, which should stay as the "Greyhawk" of 4E (i.e. core, implied setting). Instead, WotC is going to rework FR (and, presumably, Eberron) to fit the new concept. They're basically saying "All D&D campaigns must now follow this framework" by admitting that they plan to force all of them to conform to the PoL framework, instead of making each new campaign an alternative model for those of us who don't WANT a "Points of Light" setting.

In other words a model like:

Default Setting: Points of Light
Forgotten Realms: Medieval fantasy and high adventure
Eberron: Magic and technology meet
Ravenloft (example): Gothic horror meets fantasy
Planescape (example): Everything else and the kitchen sink in the outer planes

Not:

Default Setting: Points of Light
Forgotten Realms: Points of Light with a different twist
Eberron: Points of Light with a magitek twist
Ravenloft (example): Points of Light with a darker twist
Planescape (example): Points of Light in the outer planes

Which sounds like what they're doing. Every campaign will just be a new twist on this "points of light" concept, instead of being presented as a different theme entirely.

 

[BronzeGolem]

Joining the thread late, so bear with me if this has already been said:

I think the main issue is that FR should have stayed the way it was (with minor changes to facilitate the 4E changes) and been presented as an alternate campaign framework, in addition to the "Points of Light" concept, which should stay as the "Greyhawk" of 4E (i.e. core, implied setting). Instead, WotC is going to rework FR (and, presumably, Eberron) to fit the new concept. They're basically saying "All D&D campaigns must now follow this framework" by admitting that they plan to force all of them to conform to the PoL framework, instead of making each new campaign an alternative model for those of us who don't WANT a "Points of Light" setting.

In other words a model like:

Default Setting: Points of Light
Forgotten Realms: Medieval fantasy and high adventure
Eberron: Magic and technology meet
Ravenloft (example): Gothic horror meets fantasy
Planescape (example): Everything else and the kitchen sink in the outer planes

Not:

Default Setting: Points of Light
Forgotten Realms: Points of Light with a different twist
Eberron: Points of Light with a magitek twist
Ravenloft (example): Points of Light with a darker twist
Planescape (example): Points of Light in the outer planes

Which sounds like what they're doing. Every campaign will just be a new twist on this "points of light" concept, instead of being presented as a different theme entirely.

Precisely. Instead of giving people options whether they want Points of Light or not, we're all basically told "Points of Light-love it or leave it". They shouldn't really be that surprised when people opt for the 'leave it'.

 

[Uzzy]

You really don't need new CS books for each edition unless you have a metaplot.

Along with the new mechanics, new lore etc. It also makes it easier to access for people coming into the game. I know I struggled to get a 2nd Edition FRCS.

I also agree with Wayne's analysis.

 

[catsclaw227]

In other words a model like:

Default Setting: Points of Light
Forgotten Realms: Medieval fantasy and high adventure
Eberron: Magic and technology meet
Ravenloft (example): Gothic horror meets fantasy
Planescape (example): Everything else and the kitchen sink in the outer planes

Not:

Default Setting: Points of Light
Forgotten Realms: Points of Light with a different twist
Eberron: Points of Light with a magitek twist
Ravenloft (example): Points of Light with a darker twist
Planescape (example): Points of Light in the outer planes

Which sounds like what they're doing. Every campaign will just be a new twist on this "points of light" concept, instead of being presented as a different theme entirely.

Where did you get examples that Eberron was going to be updated? I understand that they aren't forwarding the timeline for Eberron, and that not much is being done to it from a historical, geographic or sociological point of view.

And (granted you said "example") we don't know anything about Ravenloft or Planescape. The only valid examples I see are Default Setting going to a PoL-style setting and making the Forgotten Realms more "forgotten".

 

[wayne62682]

Where did you get examples that Eberron was going to be updated? I understand that they aren't forwarding the timeline for Eberron, and that not much is being done to it from a historical, geographic or sociological point of view.

And (granted you said "example") we don't know anything about Ravenloft or Planescape. The only valid examples I see are Default Setting going to a PoL-style setting and making the Forgotten Realms more "forgotten".

By making the Forgotten Realms "more forgotten", they're forcing it to conform to the PoL concept (whether or not that's a good thing remains to be seen).

I don't have examples of it for Eberron. But from what they said about making FR more in line with the PoL concept, I'm figuring that's their goal for everything (although Eberron might not need to be changed much) - make everything variations of the PoL concept instead of presenting them as alternates.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Where did you get examples that Eberron was going to be updated?

He said "presumably".

 

[catsclaw227]

By making the Forgotten Realms "more forgotten", they're forcing it to conform to the PoL concept (whether or not that's a good thing remains to be seen).

I agree they are making it more inline with PoL, but I wouldn't say it was "forced". There are changes that are not to the liking of many FR fans and I can sympathize with them for that, but this is all being changed with the guidence of Ed Greenwood. I would like to think that even though they are making it fit within the 4e ruleset, they will do their best to make it fit. I, personally, like the changes. And I trust the designers, who LOVE the realms, are really working hard to make it as cool as they can.

I don't have examples of it for Eberron. But from what they said about making FR more in line with the PoL concept, I'm figuring that's their goal for everything (although Eberron might not need to be changed much) - make everything variations of the PoL concept instead of presenting them as alternates.

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that Eberron won't be changed much at all, but massaged to get the 4e ruleset to work within it's framework. It doesn't have a lot of overarching canon, so I imagine that can do this with relative ease and not disrupt the setting.

He said "presumably".

Yes, I saw that, but in the list of models, it was left out and not marked as an example, inferring that it was already determined.

 

[BlackMoria]

There are changes that are not to the liking of many FR fans and I can sympathize with them for that, but this is all being changed with the guidence of Ed Greenwood.

Ed didn't direct or guide these changes. Ed didn't get a vote on these changes. Ed is a freelancer not a WOTC staffer and WOTC owns the setting and doesn't need Ed's approval on anything. Having Ed on board may allay some fears but Ed was given 50,000 words and an outline of what to write to.