Keeping a Troll Down

[Zen]

A team of adventurers encounters and defeats a troll. The troll started the fight with 49 hp, and after the last blow was struck, is reduced to -15. None of the damage so far has been fire or acid. The troll has several goblin allies, many of which are still battling, so the team drops a few flasks of oil on the troll and resumes combat.

Now. Does if the fire damage does less than 5 hp per round, does the troll eventually get back up? Or is it assumed becasue fire damage was taken when the troll was at negative hit points, that it is killed and stays dead? In other words, are 49 points of non-regenerative damage needed to keep this troll down for good?

--Z

 

[Infiniti2000]

The troll started the fight with 49 hp, and after the last blow was struck, is reduced to -15. None of the damage so far has been fire or acid.

The only way for a troll to reach -10 hp (or below, though he can never actually go below -10 'cause he'd be dead) is via acid or fire damage. So, this is your problem.

Nonlethal damage is counted up from 0. When that number is greater than his current hit point total, he goes unconscious.

Keep the totals separate and it will make a lot more sense.

 

[dcollins]

Let me restate what happened under correct ruling terminology.

A team of adventurers encounters and defeats a troll. The troll started the fight with 49 hp, and after the last blow was struck, it is unconscious with still 49 hit points, but 64 nonlethal damage. The troll has several goblin allies, many of which are still battling, so the team drops a few flasks of oil on the troll and resumes combat.

If the fire damage does less than 5 hp per round, yes, the troll eventually gets up. For example, let's say the fire does 3 hp/round for a long time. After 10 rounds the troll has 19 hit points, but only 14 nonlethal damage (took 30 lethal, regenerated 50 nonlethal), so it is up and active at that point.

 

[the Jester]

What dcollins said. The oil will be the only lethal damage you've dealt to the troll yet; however, if you can keep the rate of fire damage high enough, the troll will prolly stay down.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

If you can coup de grace with an attack that does normal damage to the troll, you can potentially kill it regardless of the damage dealt (assuming that it fails its save). However, the situation you described doesn't sound like a coup de grace, it sounds like an ordinary attack on the unconscious troll.

 

[Pielorinho]

We generally allow CdG with lethal damage sources: break the alchemist's fire in the troll's mouth, or pour the acid into a wound in the troll's torso, for example. Otherwise it's just too annoying.

Daniel

 

[Zen]

Got it!

Thanks, all,

--Z

 

[dcollins]

Note that I don't allow CDG's via the same as the other posters. The rules say:

As a full-round action, you can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless opponent. You can also use a bow or crossbow, provided you are adjacent to the target.

Grenadelike weapons (alchemist's fire, flasks of acid) technically don't satisfy the "melee weapon... bow or crossbow" requirement. Regeneration's tough.

 

[Pielorinho]

Grenadelike weapons (alchemist's fire, flasks of acid) technically don't satisfy the "melee weapon... bow or crossbow" requirement. Regeneration's tough.

This is technically true; however, I believe they're classified as grenadlelike weapons because 99% of the time you'll want to use them that way, not because they can't be used by pouring teh stuff into an open wound.

This is where my ïnterpret the rules as common sense"approach to the rules, rather than ïnterpret the rules as a set of laws"comes into play . I thik it's within the rules, but only because my philosophy toward the rules is that they are pretty flexible.

Daniel

 

[dcollins]

Just to conclude my end of this, I also apply "common sense" metrics, and in this case it synchronizes with the literal rule. I see CDG as basically severing a major organ (heart, neck, skull). Liquids aren't able to do that, so I don't visualize pouring such into an open wound as being intrinsically fatal.

Edit: Nor is there anything in the CDG requirements that predetermine your victim having open wounds in the first place.