Kenzer & Co Dragon Ad - A RANT

[Emiricol]

At first that statement really bothered me. Then I thought to myself about how I don't allow too much 3rd party stuff in my campaign. I'd probably allow KoK stuff, though, specifically because it is official. I imagine I am far from being alone in this.

So, I don't hate that line nearly as much as I did when I first read it.

 

[der_kluge]

Me too, and it wouldn't really have bothered me if it hadn't come from an industry professional.

Industry professional?? HAHAHAHA

Seriously, I'm just a gamer like you.
I just happen to write stuff for a game company in my spare time. That's about the extent of it.

And I'm sorry if it came off sounding harsh. I want to stress that I don't have anything against Kenzer and Co. or their products. I've seen their stuff, and it's top-notch quality stuff.

I just didn't like that one line in their ad, probably because I am a game writer, it came across as implying that non-official stuff was no good, which rubbed me the wrong way.

Again, my sincerest apologies for my tone.


edit: heh, if I'm gonna talk about being a writer, the grammar should be correct.

 

[PatrickLawinger]

That may be true. Then again, you include that company's name in your .sig and therefore act as a representative of that company when you post. When you talk about taking people in a back alley and beating them with a stick, it doesn't reflect well on either you or the company you represent. Keep Eric's grandmother in mind and you won't need to make apologies.

Patrick

Industry professional?? HAHAHAHA

Seriously, I'm just a gamer like you.
I just happen to write stuff for a game company in my spare time. That's about the extent of it.

And I'm sorry if it came off sounding harsh. I want to stress that I don't have anything against Kenzer and Co. or their products. I've seen their stuff, and it's top-notch quality stuff.

I just didn't like that one line in their ad, probably because I am a game writer, it came across as implying that non-official stuff was no good, which rubbed me the wrong way.

Again, my sincerest apologies for my tone.


edit: heh, if I'm gonna talk about being a writer, the grammar should be correct.

 

[der_kluge]

Standard disclaimer:
My posts represent my own opinions, and not the opinions of my employer, Thunderhead Games.

There.

 

[Unite2Revolt]

CURTIS

First off it is my understanding that the Player's Guide that is coming out is along the lines of the 5 handbooks that came out from WotC. It will contain feats, PrC, and other Meat as well as some background info. K&C was kind enough not to publish theirs in Five volumes.

That said if you consider that the info in those books is specific to GH, and the info in the Player's Guide is specific to KoK. Do you not then expect that it will also appear in both GH and FR campaigns across the world?

K&C pays well for freelancers. You might keep that in mind before you box them into any alleys.

And as a final thought it has been noted on several boards that KoK and Kenzer have a fanatical following. I am one of the flock. I live less than 30 minutes from you and would be more than happy to meet you in the back alley of you choosing to discuss freedom of expression, the free marketplace, or the definition of the word Official.

 

[MEG Hal]

Standard disclaimer:
My posts represent my own opinions, and not the opinions of my employer, Thunderhead Games.

There.

FYI--Curtis is a freelance writer for us, while I do not agree with what he did here, I have no control over him. So his opinion is just that an opinion, just like the guys at Kenzer stated judge us by our product, please judge us by ours....and please do not assume that Curtis is speaking for TG, heck I just started reading this thread .

In one sense I do agree that when he is stating such a strong opinion and comments he should not include the company sig, he has and what is done is done.....sorry for any issues or concerns this thread has and please do not be upset with the company...just the man stating the comments.

 

[Mark]

I think it is great of Kenzer to try and take a bite out of the apple that is "D&D fans who only buy WotC products" because it opens those fans' eyes a little wider. If they purchase some non-WotC products from Kenzer, they may just look to other d20 publishers with less distaste when making future purchases.

 

[Lady Dragon]

Mark, really has a point.Just last Teusday I was at my local game store chatting with the regulars when one of them was telling me how depressed he was that his regular DM requires all material to come from WoTC books only.I think this might be more common than you think.So yes anything that can open eyes out there is a good thing.

Also I don"t think that Kenzer was trying to put down D20 they were just trying to take advantage of a lisense they paid a lot of money for.

 

[Vocenoctum]

Mark, really has a point.Just last Teusday I was at my local game store chatting with the regulars when one of them was telling me how depressed he was that his regular DM requires all material to come from WoTC books only.I think this might be more common than you think.So yes anything that can open eyes out there is a good thing.

I have a DM like that, allows anything from Wizards, but not from Dragon or Forgotten realms. Myself as DM, I tell them everything but the PHB is subject to DM whim, and they'd better ask before they assume they can use ANYTHING.
I look at all the stuff, d20 or otherwise.

Also I don"t think that Kenzer was trying to put down D20 they were just trying to take advantage of a lisense they paid a lot of money for.

When I first read the line, I read it more as "buy this and your DM will have to allow it!" but that's just my perspective

 

[Hard8Staff]

Wow.

First off, let me say how pleased I am that so many people have not just seen, but actually READ, our ad! Hoody-Hoo!!!

Not only that, folks like Curtis are drawing MORE attention to it and getting MORE people to read it. To quote the ad: "BONUS!"

Things I can clarify: WOTC approves ALL products in several stages as well as EACH AND EVERY ADVERTISEMENT. In other words, they approved this ad.

"Official" was an attempt by K&C to capture more of the "will only buy WOTC products" market. It also sends the message that everything in the PG can be used with any other D&D product. Not d20, but D&D. The way it's been explained to me by the D&D brand managers, D&D is the WOTC incarnation of a medieval fantasy d20 product. We write our Kalamar stuff specifically for that brand and no other. Not all d20 products try to write to the D&D brand. "Official" was our way of signaling certain folks (that play "pure" D&D and buy only D&D stuff or d20 stuff that they read to make sure it IS compatible with D&D) that they needn't worry.

Finally, the Kalamar Player's Guide is a Core D&D Rulebook. It says so right on the cover (or WILL say so when it comes back from the printer). Whatever official means, this certainly is it. I.e., it is as official as the PHB, DMG and MM...one might even say MORE official than D&D books like Song & Silence, Tome and Blood, FR, GH, et al.

I sincerely hope the above doesn't offend anyone. Such were not my intentions.

David S. Kenzer
President
Kenzer and Company

PS The Player's Guide was one of the best-received products at GTS last week! Of particular interest were the complete Feat and spell lists. A bit OT, but Geanavue was a rave as well...particularly the massive map that defines EVERY building right on it.