D&D 5E Killing a Teammate

[Lanliss]

The DM has not constructed a no win scenario. Keeping the PC alive is a win. It may be boring for the player unless the DM changes his mind on B, but it's a win for the PCs.



Personally, if the DM won't budge on B, I like option D better.

Players: "We're going to be playing something else instead of D&D." or "We've decided on a new DM."

The DM made a mistake and refuses to fix it. That's bad. He should be replaced.



False Equivalence. The PCs are not faced with that option. Their companion can be fixed as good as new, unlike the real life brain dead choice. Since the PCs know that, killing the PC to save themselves some liability is a murder of expedience and is therefore evil.



I'm not declaring the party to be evil. I'm saying the act is evil. A murder of expedience to save the party some trouble is never anything but. Even if the entire world rested on their shoulders, it would still be an evil act to murder the PC to make things easier on themselves. Perhaps necessary, but still evil.

I think the core problem is two specific points in our argument. I do not believe it would be a win to drag the PC through the underdark, UNLESS the DM changes his mind on the PC limit. I also do not believe something truly necessary, to the point of the death of the entire human race or even further, the death of the planet, can be Evil. Unsavory, most definitely. A guilty burr in one's mind for the rest of one's life? Possibly, depending on the underlying psychology of the character. I think what is far more selfish, if you are on a quest to save the world, would be keeping your old friend alive, even when they seriously jeopardize the saving of the world. Unless of course you planned to ditch them in the middle of a fight, as soon as they start making things more difficult.

Also, it is not a false equivalence. One of the main hopes of those who keep a loved one on life support is "Maybe they will get better". From a character point of view, they are not positive they can reach help. They are not positive they will ever be able to fix the PC, and considering the underdark, it is very likely they will all die, and the PC will be kept as an amusing slave by someone, or just slaughtered along with them.

I should note, I am not saying they should kill the PC immediately, just because they might be a problem in the future. I am saying that it would not be Evil if they went for a few weeks, and saw no sign of improvement in the PC, and decided that there was just no hope for him.


Iserith, I apologize if it seemed I was insulting the DM. What I meant was that the DM was making a mistake that kept a player from playing. An honest mistake, though compounded by the limit on PCs. I think the Players would be worse than that, if they were to go along with this, and help to exclude their friend, hence my use of the D-word.

 

[hejtmane]

I'm not disagreeing with you here. I'm just saying the DM has to be willing to tweak things in some fashion, whether it's that the party happens to encounter someone able to be their new ally (aka the replacement for the brain-dead character) or discover a method of getting their ally restored to functionality (likely via some sort of quest)rather than just saying "Well, the dice say she's a mental vegetable, guess you're dragging her body around for the next 10 sessions while the player twiddles her thumbs because anything else would be a silly coincidence."

If the DM is that inflexible the players should revolt and get rid of the DM. I know I said it already I would tell the DM to go suck donkey balls before I sat around doing nothing for months. The other players will also probably bail thinking it could be their character next talk about being bored out of your mind. If his players are reading and he has not changed his mind; I would suggest to them to revolt and kick him out as DM or all quit and find another game with a better DM because he is one of the worse type of DM he is inflexible.

I feel for the players that are tied to this DM; good luck guys my advice run far far away and find a better DM.

 

[MechaPilot]

A lot of that has happened already

Sure, but there's no good reason to continue the piling on. I mean, I feel that I was fairly harsh in my comments (although I was actually trying to hold back), but I did my best to avoid any name calling. In other words, just because some people have already done it doesn't mean the rest of us should pile on. Recall that we are dealing with someone whose use name and post count hints at being new to the game and DM'ing. If the community he turns to for advice mostly calls him names then he's unlikely to consider what we actually have to say, and he's also likely never to ask advice here again.

 

[akr71]

^ this

Even by the person's screen name he/she had admitted that they are new as a DM. I know I made a sh*t ton of mistakes my first time at the reins.

However, there has been a lot of constructive advice and comments in this thread too. Find a way to let the player play, whether it is by making a cure accessible or letting the player bring in a new character.

 

[hejtmane]

Sure, but there's no good reason to continue the piling on. I mean, I feel that I was fairly harsh in my comments (although I was actually trying to hold back), but I did my best to avoid any name calling. In other words, just because some people have already done it doesn't mean the rest of us should pile on. Recall that we are dealing with someone whose use name and post count hints at being new to the game and DM'ing. If the community he turns to for advice mostly calls him names then he's unlikely to consider what we actually have to say, and he's also likely never to ask advice here again.

Part of the argument was it evil to kill the person that was not pilling on that was a disagreement on the forums and why it was or was not

 

[Desh-Rae-Halra]

The penalty of not being able to bring in another character, but have to show up and just sit there for 8-10 games is really disturbing and almost surreal.
However, if you are looking for a passive-aggressive way of kicking someone out of your group, you're golden.

I have had experience with this. In a LARP game, my character and another character were exiled from the city for 6 months. The Storyteller actually expected us to show up to game even though we couldn't be involved with any other characters. Our characters, despite seeing the in-game punishment as unfair, were loyal; and hence took the punishment.

So we stopped going to game, and after 6 months, they wondered why we never came back.
In that interim of time, we discovered (and could afford) online console gaming, and we havent been back to LARP since.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

I would not consider the Paladin putting the helpless character out of their misery to be an evil action. Because unless the DM sets up a fix the character is dead.

The party is underground and apparently months away from a nearby settlement which could be even harder to reach because of the Underdark's maze like nature. The stunned character is going to starve to death. No matter what. The characters have no way to save her unless the DM presents a new option. If the characters can't find anything to save the character within a few days. Putting them down seems like the only option to me. Because it's ether a slow death or a quick death right now.

 

[KahlessNestor]

Point of fact, she is only going to starve if her party actively starves her. She isn't incapable of eating, only of eating unassisted. Either way you dice this, the only way she dies is if her party chooses to kill her.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Point of fact, she is only going to starve if her party actively starves her. She isn't incapable of eating, only of eating unassisted. Either way you dice this, the only way she dies is if her party chooses to kill her.

Eating requires, at the very least, an Action or a Reaction; it's not an entirely passive activity. The party can shove food down her throat, at which point she'll choke on it because she's incapable of swallowing anything.

 

[GameOgre]

I love POINTS OF FACT that are anything but facts.

Ten friggin pages later there are people still not getting the idea that: It doesn't matter what reasoning you use, being unfun is wrong.

Telling people they can't play because there character failed a save= WRONG!

Telling Paladins they can't be good unless they are boring and babysit = WRONG!

Seriously it's like someone people walk around thinking..How can I make my games suck more? I know! I will give player characters the choice of being good or having fun! Then I can take out players from the game and make them sit there doing nothing while we play...This is awesome! Man oh man I can't wait for my game to suck this much!

I'm not talking failing forward or not killing off pc's either. I'm not talking roll playing verse role playing, Drama or hack and slash...Dude I don't care. Be a killer DM if you want to be(as long as that's what you're group is into make Dungeon Crawl Classics look like carebear the rpg). Or play Fate and let everyone at your table play different personalities of a serial killer fighting for dominance. It doesn't matter to me.

Just don't be one of those people sitting at a table full of people not having fun.