Killing as fun and games: a question for the Good Guys

[TerraDave]

The pcs are sick bastards who use a construct called "alingment"--which is so ambigious and unworkable in practice that it can't be real or have serious meaning--to rationalize what they are doing.


(joking..

....kinda)

 

[Sound of Azure]

Which leads again to the question I posed: Is there a way for a good (or in this case neutral) aligned people to learn to view killing as fun and games?

D&D is a game about Conflict and Challenges. Sometimes killing is involved, and sometimes it isn't. Good people wouldn't enjoy it (killing), even if it is necessary.

Because, within the game mechanics, that is the *only way* for the people of Medegia, to survive Ivid's assault!!

If the people of Medegia want to survive, they need to have either a capable military, or a better method of escaping. They don't need to become bloodthirsty in order to have a capable military, though, nor does the military itself have to be bloodthirsty in order to be successful.

 

[RFisher]

Because, within the game mechanics, that is the *only way* for the people of Medegia, to survive Ivid's assault!!

Even if I were to accept the premise that power in D&D primarily comes from treating killing as fun...

I wouldn't let game mechanics have that big an influence on the game world. Most RPG rules don't cover that scale. It's like how I'm happy to use Newton's mechanics to deal with the day-to-day stuff I may need physics for even though I know they break down at relatavistic speeds. It's like the way that I'm not surprised that the rules of a strategic level wargame can't be derived from the rules of a skirmish game.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Look at my question from the POV of: How do the people of Medegia save themselves and their country?
Look at my question from the POV of the 2nd Edition rules (since Medegia was destroyed under 2nd Edition rules.)

 

[Sound of Azure]

Look at my question from the POV of: How do the people of Medegia save themselves and their country?

Looks like they're doomed to me.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

D&D is a game about Conflict and Challenges. Sometimes killing is involved, and sometimes it isn't. Good people wouldn't enjoy it (killing), even if it is necessary.

If the people of Medegia want to survive, they need to have either a capable military, or a better method of escaping. They don't need to become bloodthirsty in order to have a capable military, though, nor does the military itself have to be bloodthirsty in order to be successful.

Unfortunately, the evil guys did enjoy killing ... and the evil guys killed almost every last person in Medegia.

Medegia had a capable military, despite Osson's assault (see the History of the Greyhawk Wars.) They could even have allied with Osson.
Medegia's army and Osson's army put together, could not have saved Medegia. They were militarily overwhelmed.
The question now is: given 100 years to prepare, how could they have prepared a military strong enough to withstand Ivid's juggernaut?
Be they bloodthirsty or not, they must find some answer, or face annihilation.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Even if I were to accept the premise that power in D&D primarily comes from treating killing as fun...

I wouldn't let game mechanics have that big an influence on the game world. Most RPG rules don't cover that scale. It's like how I'm happy to use Newton's mechanics to deal with the day-to-day stuff I may need physics for even though I know they break down at relatavistic speeds. It's like the way that I'm not surprised that the rules of a strategic level wargame can't be derived from the rules of a skirmish game.

You might not ... but the designers at TSR did.
They destroyed Medegia, using the premise that Ivid - who had attained great power through killing - used the power of evil to summon demons and gather great armies of evil humanoids. As ruler of an evil nation, he could also summon armies of evil humans and others to act as marauders.
And then the evil guys did what evil does best: evil deeds. Such as mass murder, torture, and destruction, or in this case the annihilation of Medegia.

How then, for the good guys and neutral guys to cope? Well, they couldn't cope, in Medegia, and they all died.

I ask for a better answer. On this board, ENWorld, are the most creative people in the Hobby. And someone amongst you must know a better answer, for the people of Medegia.

If that answer involves good or neutrally aligned people seeing killing as fun and games, so they can advance in levels within the game mechanics, then so be it.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Looks like they're doomed to me.

Yes. Obviously.
Now, let's find a different answer.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

We don't. Instead, create GOOD people who view battle as deadly serious, and train and fight with each other to practice, not to kill each other.

Then, introduce EVIL people & things what need killing. The killing isn't fun, it's necessary. (The risk of dying isn't fun either.)

Why do you care if the people in the game are having fun? It's the people around the table who matter!

Cheers, -- N

Obviously. That's the default. Good people treat killing as extremely serious. A perfectly normal, rational way of thinking!
And yes, we introduce the 'bad guys' and they have to be killed (or they kill the good guys.) Classic approach.

But let's say the 'people around the table' are running Medegian characters, and these characters cannot flee Medegia. Ivid's juggernaut is coming in 100 years, as I cited. What to do? How to make pathetic Medegia able to withstand such a colossal assault?
This question lies outside the standard thinking or classic approaches.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I am guessing it is because D&D, in general, is filled with real monsters and palpable evil. I am not saying mankind is not evil in the real world, just that EVIL is very obvious, very real, and very confrontable in most fantasy worlds.

So, do the poor unfortunates in Medegia have to embrace evil (as the drow have done) just to survive? Is that the only way?
Or is another answer available?