Killing innocents - a paladin thread in disguise ;-)
- Thread starter Thanee
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Thanee
First Post
The remaining crew actually thinks we are pirates. Altho, that's really completely stupid. 
Even after giving the now highest ranked among them full control over the ship and telling him, that he can choose what we do now (I only asked of him not to try to put us in chains, like his captain, because I cannot let this happen) and offered any help we can give.
Bye
Thanee
Even after giving the now highest ranked among them full control over the ship and telling him, that he can choose what we do now (I only asked of him not to try to put us in chains, like his captain, because I cannot let this happen) and offered any help we can give.
Bye
Thanee
werk
First Post
I think it was OK what you did. The truely good thing to do would have been to warn them...
I don't know what could have been done differently, not knowing the details of the party's abilities. Maybe something else could have been done, but it sounds like the DM was setting you up for this type of reaction.
I might have encouraged the captain's cleric to detect the paladin's good aura, which would read as probably strong or overwhelming. Maybe a different spell when they came at you...like wall of ice.
So that's covered. They were attacking you, against your recommendation, and you were defending yourself.
I don't know what could have been done differently, not knowing the details of the party's abilities. Maybe something else could have been done, but it sounds like the DM was setting you up for this type of reaction.
I might have encouraged the captain's cleric to detect the paladin's good aura, which would read as probably strong or overwhelming. Maybe a different spell when they came at you...like wall of ice.
William Ronald
Explorer
Thanee said:The remaining crew actually thinks we are pirates. Altho, that's really completely stupid.
Even after giving the now highest ranked among them full control over the ship and telling him, that he can choose what we do now (I only asked of him not to try to put us in chains, like his captain, because I cannot let this happen) and offered any help we can give.
Bye
Thanee
I think your DM may be underestimating the intelligence and wisdom of the average person. You spared the crew, and have explained the situation. Hopefully, your DM won't have the crew try to take the PCs prisoner. If it is possible for your characters to help than leave, that might be the best. I hope that the name of the vessel is not The Ship of Fools .
Thanee
First Post
werk said:
The paladin actually tried pretty much anything to prove that she is truely that, which I learned later, since I wasn't present when she was. Nothing worked. They were completely ignorant to any arguments it seemed. Like... "So, you can heal? Fallen Paladins (Blackguards) can heal, too. So, what is that to prove?"
(The paladin currently has no mount. It died recently. And we don't use the summonable mount. It's just around like an animal companion or familiar.)
I could have done that (not that I really thought about the stone's powers at that point, but that's beside the point)... let's assume, I would have put up the Wall of Ice. What then?
It just makes things even more difficult, I'm afraid. And as I said, I don't have the means to leave the ship, except, well, swimming the ocean.
Bye
Thanee
Ah yes, the old "magic maguffin that will do horrible, terrible things if it falls into the hands of the Bad Guys(tm), but you can't destroy it" trick. IMNSHO This is the worst of trite railroading a GM can stoop to. Add to that the situation he put your party in (note the impossibility of getting the captain to even consider the possibility he might be making a mistake) and you have a Bad GM (tm)!
What I want to know is why no one was using bluff or intimidate, and why the paladin didn't Detect Evil when confronted by the (evil) three?
What I want to know is why no one was using bluff or intimidate, and why the paladin didn't Detect Evil when confronted by the (evil) three?
Li Shenron
Legend
Great story situation in my opinion 
As a sorcerer (chaotic good I suppose), I think you didn't do anything wrong. Your character was in a very bad situation, being accused of a terrible crime and knowing to be innocent is really one of the worst thing I can imagine. Probably the sorceress did the right thing not to accept being unfairly chained: I don't know the details of your campaigns, how much the authority of the captain on his ship is equivalent to the law on the land, but not accepting the law when the law is making a mistake isn't an evil act (if you are Lawful, your character is definitely going to feel guilt for a long time about her choice).
I am not even sure that this was a decision that a Paladin should never make. I think a Paladin would probably at least not have attacked, but escaped the room or only defended himself after the others attacked him.
But if your Sorceress is CG, I think it's quite likely that she was freaking out at the outrageous mistake, and fired the first spell that came to her mind.
As a sorcerer (chaotic good I suppose), I think you didn't do anything wrong. Your character was in a very bad situation, being accused of a terrible crime and knowing to be innocent is really one of the worst thing I can imagine. Probably the sorceress did the right thing not to accept being unfairly chained: I don't know the details of your campaigns, how much the authority of the captain on his ship is equivalent to the law on the land, but not accepting the law when the law is making a mistake isn't an evil act (if you are Lawful, your character is definitely going to feel guilt for a long time about her choice).
I am not even sure that this was a decision that a Paladin should never make. I think a Paladin would probably at least not have attacked, but escaped the room or only defended himself after the others attacked him.
But if your Sorceress is CG, I think it's quite likely that she was freaking out at the outrageous mistake, and fired the first spell that came to her mind.
Gothic_Demon
First Post
I suppose I'm gonna be the Devil's Advocate on this one! (BTW Before I begin, Kudos to your DM. Anything which makes you think about your character is a good scene!)
I don't think you did the right thing. It certainly wasn't good, though I wouldn't put it at evil. Killing people who are about to wrongly order your death (at least, you felt being chained was as good as a death sentence here) isn't evil, it's self-serving (and thus neutral).
However, I assume you are a reasonably powerful Sorceress (at least 6th level to be throwing fireballs around), travelling with two Paladins who can look after themselves, and a spell-casting, shapechanging druid. You know a number of things:
1. There is a murderer who wants you chained so he can come and kill you.
2. The captain is going to take away your items and chain you and lock you in a room somewhere.
3. You do have allies who are aware of your feelings and who could come to your aid, even if only as support or a distraction. (The druid's companion)
You can plan for the event, of the killer coming for you. You can be prepared for the killer, and even bound two Paladins, a druid and a Sorcerer might well have been able to overcome the challenge, maybe even break the chains or pick the locks? Shapechange into something small, then into something really big? Equally, you could have asked the captain for a guard to protect you, at least buying you a little time. This would have smoked the killer out and allowed you to unmask him/her/it.
Fireballing the room might have seemed like a good idea (in case there was someone really dangerous in there, but if they were that dangerous, and the fireball didn't kill them, doesn't that mean you're in big trouble anyway? And you've just legitimised your deaths; they don't even need to sneakily bump you off now, you've turned everyone against you. It may have been the only option, but I think it was probably the wrong decision.
As for the Paladins, I think you could be forgiven if you were remorseful about it. They shouldn't be overly happy about you fireballing people who are effectively doing the right thing.
I don't think you did the right thing. It certainly wasn't good, though I wouldn't put it at evil. Killing people who are about to wrongly order your death (at least, you felt being chained was as good as a death sentence here) isn't evil, it's self-serving (and thus neutral).
However, I assume you are a reasonably powerful Sorceress (at least 6th level to be throwing fireballs around), travelling with two Paladins who can look after themselves, and a spell-casting, shapechanging druid. You know a number of things:
1. There is a murderer who wants you chained so he can come and kill you.
2. The captain is going to take away your items and chain you and lock you in a room somewhere.
3. You do have allies who are aware of your feelings and who could come to your aid, even if only as support or a distraction. (The druid's companion)
You can plan for the event, of the killer coming for you. You can be prepared for the killer, and even bound two Paladins, a druid and a Sorcerer might well have been able to overcome the challenge, maybe even break the chains or pick the locks? Shapechange into something small, then into something really big? Equally, you could have asked the captain for a guard to protect you, at least buying you a little time. This would have smoked the killer out and allowed you to unmask him/her/it.
Fireballing the room might have seemed like a good idea (in case there was someone really dangerous in there, but if they were that dangerous, and the fireball didn't kill them, doesn't that mean you're in big trouble anyway? And you've just legitimised your deaths; they don't even need to sneakily bump you off now, you've turned everyone against you. It may have been the only option, but I think it was probably the wrong decision.
As for the Paladins, I think you could be forgiven if you were remorseful about it. They shouldn't be overly happy about you fireballing people who are effectively doing the right thing.
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