[kinda OT] President Bush's spirit trapped in a pot

[Elder-Basilisk]

That really depends upon what a soul is considered to be. As far as I can tell, the concept of Soul that Plato and his followers inherited from Socrates was closest to what we call the mind today but unambiguously including emotions and necessarily immortal and nonphysical. By that definition, a person without a soul would be dead. And that definition of soul persisted for a good 1800-2000 years.

Now, there's a lot more confusion about what a soul actually is. On Buffy, for instance, there was a lot of talk about "souls" and how vampires didn't have them (except for Angel and, later, Spike) which made them bad and getting a soul made the vampires good. Except that there were plenty of really evil humans around and they all had souls so souls didn't make people good. And then there was Spike who wasn't unambiguously evil even before he got his soul back and didn't become unambiguously good even after getting his soul back. What exactly the soul represents in the Buffyverse then is anyone's guess but it's certainly not the soul of ancient and early modern philosophy. And there wouldn't really be much of any way to tell that the king had lost his soul. If he started behaving evilly when he hadn't done so before that would be one indication but then again plenty of people with living souls are wicked so it's not very conclusive. (As far as I can tell, the mayor had a soul right up to his transformation....)

The Arcanis campaign setting also discusses souls at length. In Arcanis, at least they have a definition--the seat of emotion. A person without a soul (as all undead are in Arcanis--they sacrifice the soul to preserve the intellect (although I'd say it does a rather poor job of preserving that except in the case of ghosts, vampires, and liches)) would have lost all passion and emotion. That would possibly be noticable--in fact, in reality, it might result in a complete inability to function at all. As G.K. Chesterton noted, the purely rational man will not fight and the purely rational man will not marry. In fact, it's difficult to see why any goal is rational and without goals, one lives in the land of Waiting for Godot or Exit.

So, if you figure out what a soul is, it will be clear whether or not you can tell that you've lost it.

In game how would you recognize that for example the King's soul is not inside him ?

 

[Nifft]

So, if you figure out what a soul is, it will be clear whether or not you can tell that you've lost it.

Tch, tch! Don't go polluting religion with clear thinking!

-- N

 

[Mark Chance]

As far as I can tell, the concept of Soul that Plato and his followers inherited from Socrates was closest to what we call the mind today but unambiguously including emotions and necessarily immortal and nonphysical. By that definition, a person without a soul would be dead. And that definition of soul persisted for a good 1800-2000 years.

There are variations on this theme in the West. Aristotle, for example, did not believe the soul was immortal. Since the soul is the motive force of a living body, the soul, according to Aristotle, at some time ceases to exist, thus causing death.

In some Eastern religions, most notably Buddhism, there is no soul. Instead, what exists beyond death and is reincarnated is the sum total of a person's selfish desires. This doesn't seem a good route for a curse, but imagine if a major leader suddenly became completely selfless. Can a living saint be a political leader?

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

As Mark Chance pointed out, in the article, they talk about:
voodoo rites: Antilles and Haïti
black magic: hm. not sure.
mantras: from Brahmanism (India)
Khmer: Cambodgian

AR

 

[Agback]

Can a living saint be a political leader?

Asoka was.

Regards,


Agback

 

[gamecat]

Can a living saint be a political leader?

I tried running for governor of california with no degree of success.

 

[Henry]

Fascinating game idea, but this is just a Moderatorly reminder to keep it politically neutral - in other words, rooted squarely in gaming.

Carry on, mes amis!

 

[jgbrowning]

[summons elvis]

He's trapped in a pot
And he can't get out!
Because there too much voodoo, baby....

[/summons elvis]

joe b

 

[Jhamin]

I wonder how much magical support George W. Bush has. Maybe that's what the Freemasons really do...

In the World of Darkness, there are totem spirits representing animals, places, and ideas.

In that gaming world, the President (whoever that may be) is protected by The American Dream. Not the idea, the actual totem spirit that has grown up out of the hopes and dreams of patriots and immigrents alike. It is a powerful spirit, but is often plagued by corruption.

Still, in the WOD you don't just wack the big guy if you know what's good for you.

 

[Mark Chance]

Asoka was.

Point made. Of course, Asoka became a ruler by doing some very bad things, starting with the civil war that led to the death of one of his brothers.

Hmm. Maybe some shaman trapped Asoka's selfish desires in a clay pot after Asoka's campaign against Kalinga?