Kir-Lanan ECL...

[dkilgo]

So you think they are so bad, they are actually a penalty to the character? Their very presence makes the character weaker than the character would be without them? Uh...right.

I never said that they make the character weaker as levels progress. What I mean is that at lower levels the kir-lanan has more use for their spell-like abilities because they are more effective at these levels. At higher levels they are much less effective. That was all I was trying to say.

You fail to understand what I meant. There are more ways of comparing two creatures than "Who'd win". Since ECL is a factor (and not CR), we assume that the human and the kir-lanan are on the same side. Therefore, it makes sense to compare their performance, not against each other, but against the foes they both face. And when you do that, the kir-lanan outperforms the fighter.

I see what you mean now. But, at higher levels the kir-lanan will be over-shadowed by the fighter.

Do you have some sort of problem with me, that you are trying to make this personal?

Sorry, bad day. Was not meant to be personal. I appologize.

Yeah, actually. That was the whole purpose of me putting up a statblock for the 4th level kir-lanan fighter, so you could compare it to the 8th level fighter from the DMG. Assuming they're fighting the same foe:

He's going to hit more often because he has a higher attack bonus.
He's going to do more damage because he has a higher strength bonus.
He's going to be hit less often because he has a higher AC.

This is only theory. What it looks to be on paper might not be so when it comes to fleshing out the actual combat.

You go do that, then. Let me know if you come up with anything.

I have enough time on my hands today that I might just play test several encounters like this. I will let you know how it turns out. I am afraid that you are right, though.

 

[drnuncheon]

I see what you mean now. But, at higher levels the kir-lanan will be over-shadowed by the fighter.

I'm worried that that won't happen. If they're both leveling in fighter, then the kir-lanan will keep its edge in terms of to-hit and damage, and probably in terms of AC as well. The spell-like abilities will become of less use, certainly, but he's better than the human fighter even without them.

The sole edge the human fighter has is a slight advantage in combat versatility thanks to the extra feats - he'll be getting the feats earlier than his flying counterpart, but there comes a time at the higher levels when you start to run out of feats in your primary chain(s) and you're forced to spread out.

So I'm not sure at all that the 16th level kir-lanan would be overshadowed by the 20th level fighter...if I have time later on I'll post one of those to provide a comparison with the DMG's NPC.

J

 

[dkilgo]

okay, thanks.

 

[Knight Otu]

The +4 ECL could be my "fault". If in doubt, you might be better of using Soldarin's number.

 

[dkilgo]

Soldarin places it at either +4 or +6. The question is which on e of these is correct. So, far some have said +4, some are for +5, and others are for +6.

 

[kreynolds]

Kilgo. Knight Otu is the one that did many of the calculations of the ECLs in Soldarin's list. He's the one that came up with +4.

 

[dkilgo]

I did not realize that I am sorry Knight Otu.

Edit: I don't know what I am doing!!!!

 

[Knight Otu]

No problem.

I could have worded my post much clearer.

 

[dkilgo]

Is soldarin's ECL mod for the kir-lanan a +6?

 

[Knight Otu]

Yep. Soldarin himself puts them at +6.