Knife Fighter (Opinions and Playtesters Wanted)

[Geoff Watson]

Losing the armour and weapons is not a big deal. They take one level of Normal Fighter and get them all back, plus a bonus feat.

Losing medium and heavy armour isn't that bad anyway. They suck, especially if you have a high Dex.

Geoff.

 

[Questions]

To the person above... I pulled a poor mans copyright and sent a rough draft of the campaign to my self via mail...

What is actually copy writed here, very little... I went over the post and deleted the actual campaign name as well as a lot of campaign specific text from what I was originally going to post. That was all I was really worried about... I probably should have deleted that warning when I deleted the specific text I was worried about as well.

Also, Leopold, please cut down on the thinly veneered hostility I believe I sence from you. I posted this thread with the sole reason of getting some output on one particular part of a campaign setting that me and some friends are working on, and hope to one day actually publish. There is no reason to go off being rude and a jack ass... I posted that disclaimer simply asking (for text that I then actually deleted before I posted) that certain text and names (such as the campaign name that was originally present in the original text) be used with discretion since it is a project we are actually working on.

My little disclaimer was meant neither to be hostile, daunting, nor cruel.

 

[trentonjoe]

My little disclaimer was meant neither to be hostile, daunting, nor cruel. [/B]

nor was it needed. THis forum usually gives very constuctive citicism to posts like yours. Just post stuff.

Good luck on the modifications and please post the revision.

 

[Al]

I could regurgitate all of the previous comments about this class being too good (i.e. it gains full sneak attack, uncanny dodge and a set of decent abilities in exchange for a one point lower HD and one feat) but I won't.

Instead, I'd like to say that there is much Knife Fighter in the Knife Fighter. Granted, his Weapon Focus, Finesse, Specialisation and Improved Criticals are restricted to knives and daggers, and Stunning Slash is an interesting ability, but there isn't really much else. The Knife Fighter could be similarly modelled using the fighter and gave it rogue abilities: there is nothing really unique, nor is there anything 'knife fightery'. Chances are that the fighter who chooses to use daggers and the like as his preferred weapon are going to pick up these feats anyway. Perhaps you could think of some interesting and unique abilities to boost it: I like Chip079's abilities.

A few others:
Frenzy of Blades: As Rapid Shot, but with daggers (bit boring, but still...)
Deep Wound: Expanded criticals X/day (i.e. x3 crit mulitipler).
Blinding Slash: By targeting creatures eyes, cause blindness (Reflex negates)
or similar things of that vein.

Incidentally, whilst Stunning Slash is unique, it is strange. It doesn't really make sense to stun an opponent with a small piercing or slashing weapon.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I must say to start off that I agree with some of the other posters. As I see it, this kind of a concept is best suited to a prestige class.

Prestige classes are supposed to represent characters whose mastery of their fighting style gives them unique and dangerous advantages. Weapon Master, Lasher, Tempest, and Master of Chains are all examples of this type of prestige class. By making knife fighter a core class, you do several things:

1. Encourage characters of other classes to take one level of knife fighter for the bonus feats/goodies

2. Set up a campaign-wide game mechanic that makes fighting with daggers almost as effective as fighting with swords (a bit silly IMHO--most people historically used swords for a very good reasons).

3. Maintain that there is something unique about fighting with knives that make it different from fighting with swords.

I think that a combination of fighter and monk or fighter and rogue or even fighter and ranger would represent a knife fighter very well with the core rules. This would leave you the flexibility to create a prestige class that represents an order of master knife fighters who are as feared as swordsmen. It would also enable you to have more than one prestige class with distinct abilities if you wanted to represent rival schools of knife-fighting.

PS. If you want more comments on the class, I suggest you repost it in something like the following format:

Class Name:

Description:

Prereqs [If Prestige Class]

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies:

Skill Points per level; class skills list

BAB Fort Ref Will Special Abilities
+1 +2 +2 +0 Super Duper Knife Killaz
+2 +3 +3 +0 Knife Killaz Gizmo +1d6
+3 +3 +3 +1 Knife Parry +2
+4 +4 +4 +1 Knife Killaz Gizmo +2d6

Special Abilities Descriptions:

Super Duper Knife Killaz: blah blah blah

Knife Killaz Gizmo blah blah blah

The chart is really the big thing. It makes the attack bonus, saves, and ability progression really easy to read and mentally compare to other classes.

 

[Jeph]

Actually, fighting with knives *is* very different from fighting with swords.

With swords, you may slash or pierce, and parrying is an every-second occurance.

When fighting with knives, slashing is rrare except to sever digits or to hamstring, and parrying is virtually impossible do to the speed and tiney size of the blade. Knives are also more acurate because of decreased momentum.

Personally, I'd make the sneak attack damage d4, then put a few limiting factors on it, making it more like the Ambush ability from the Outlaw of the Crimson Road (song and silence).

Ditch stunning slash, it does not have anything to do with knife fighting. Instead, try something like the ability to target specific areas of the body, such as the wrist vein, the finger, or the eye, usable 1/day/level.

-jeph

 

[Questions]

First off, let me thank trentonjoe... I will leave disclaimers out in the future... I was not sure as to the atmosphere of the community here as I have never posted before... People like you make such a place far more welcome and pleasent environment.

Second off... The knife fighter HAS been turned into a prestiege class already... so no need to worry about that people

Third off... my setting does not need rules to make fighting with daggers as good as fighting with swords... I know full well that there was a reason why people fought with swords in the past...

The reason why people fight with knives in my setting is because swords are not around for the most part...

I will have the revized knife fighter up soon.