Knockdown + Improved Trip

[Dr. Zoom]

FWIW, the sage answered two questions regarding these issues at the last Sage Advice chat event on the WotC boards. Here is the Q&A:


Q: Can I use a non-trip reach weapon with Knockdown at reach of 10 feet? I have been led to believe that trip attacks are unarmed, which would limit the trip reach to 5 feet.

A: I'm not entirely sure I understand the question. No you can’t use a weapon to make trip attacks unless its description says you can (you're right, trip is an unarmed attack). You can, however, use the Knockdown feat with any weapon at all. It's a misnomer to say that Knockdown lets you make trip attacks; it doesn’t. It lets you knock foes off their feet when you womp them hard enough, and the mechanic for doing that just happens to be the same as the mechanic for tripping, because it works well for this particular situation.

Q: So knockdown doesn't trigger a response trip?

A: Nope. You also don’t get an extra attack from a successful knockdown if you have Improved Trip.

 

[Murrdox]

WAHHH???!!!

WOW, that completely blows my mind!

They REALLY need to specify whether or not trip attacks are an unarmed attack or a weapon attack - also, the fact that opponents don't get a chance to trip YOU when using the knockdown feat is pretty sick! I've never heard that one before anywhere!

BTW, where the heck do you get these Sage chat logs from?

 

[Dr. Zoom]

They REALLY need to specify whether or not trip attacks are an unarmed attack or a weapon attack

You can trip unarmed or with certain "trip" weapons. These are specified in the weapons description section in the PH.

also, the fact that opponents don't get a chance to trip YOU when using the knockdown feat is pretty sick! I've never heard that one before anywhere!

Because it's not really a trip, it just uses the trip mechanic. You are not tripping your target, you are knocking him off his feet with the power of your blow.

BTW, where the heck do you get these Sage chat logs from?

Morrus posted the link to it on Sunday's EN World main page.

 

[Murrdox]

I guess then I'd just like em to stick a couple of rules into 3.5....

namely, "A Trip attack is an unarmed attack unless the weapon the attacker is using is a trip weapon, in which case the attacker can choose to make an armed trip attack".

And for knockdown, "When making a trip attempt using the knockdown feat, your opponent does not get a chance to trip you if you fail the strength check"

 

[KnowTheToe]

I personally believe that the good Dr. has everything memorized and I really appreciate all of his participation in this forum.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

I personally believe that the good Dr. has everything memorized and I really appreciate all of his participation in this forum.

Thanks for the compliment.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

I guess then I'd just like em to stick a couple of rules into 3.5....

namely, "A Trip attack is an unarmed attack unless the weapon the attacker is using is a trip weapon, in which case the attacker can choose to make an armed trip attack".

And for knockdown, "When making a trip attempt using the knockdown feat, your opponent does not get a chance to trip you if you fail the strength check"

I would also welcome any clarity such as this in 3.5.