Knowledge[Local] : How Local?

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Variant was my term, not theirs. It was clearly optional, however.

 

[Khayman]

Is there anything official about this?

Yes, and no. The description in the SRD is vague. My enquiries to Sage Advice were ignored --- snf!

NPCs with the skill listed in Dragon and on the WotC website specify locations. For example, from a Realms Personalities article on the website, they list Knowledge (Thay local). However, in a Dragonshards article, Rich Baker stated that: "At the broadest, most generous end of the spectrum, Knowledge (local) can be used in any location. [...] If the DM wants to sacrifice utility in the name of realism, he can make a character choose a country to associate with the skill -- Knowledge (local/Breland)."

I believe that the Greyhawk regional feats from Dragon #315 and #319 require the feat-holder to have been raised in the region *or* have bought 2 slots of Knowledge (local) to reflect a time of residence. (I don't have those issues handy so I can't say for certain.) Sounds like if you want a background feat specific to the Wild Coast (for example), you should have spent some time there (or at least read up on it).

My gut feeling? Restrict it to a region. How small an area depends on the campaign. And yes, it does overlap with Knowledge (geography, history, monster lore) and Gather Information --- if anyone has a problem with it, house rule them into clarity or do away with one of the skills.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

That Dragonshards article is the one I was referring to.

 

[taliesin15]

this issue came up in the campaign I'm running a month & a half ago--one of the players wrote up a detailed biography for his Rogue character, including stuff about him leaving his homeland to work as a mercenary on a ship, and decided to jump ship at first opportunity (on a continent he's never set foot on before) once he saw the ship captain taking slaves

then he wanders until he meets one of the other characters, makes his way to the tavern in the nearest town, and the adventure starts--he then tried to use the *Knowledge Local* skill when the party was trying to sell loot without paying levies and duties in order to discern whether they were being ripped off or not

here's the thing: if the rules mean Local *anywhere*, how's that supposed to work for a character who's been in the town and continent less than a week, places he's never heard of before?

I do like this comment:
What can Knowledge (Local) help you find out which Gather Info can not? What is the main difference between them? Just time?

one player said something about this guy should have the option to Know about any locale he wants--I don't see how that would work if he writes up his bio like that--if I allowed him Local Knowledge in a strange place, am I to deny it to him if the party ends up going to his homeland? Kinda like he was trying to get 2 sets of skills for the price of one.

 

[Trainz]

As it is in the core rules, it covers EVERYWHERE. You know stuff about wherever you happen to be.

Even as that, it's an uncommon skill for PC's to take, because, frankly, it sucks.

So don't go out of your way to make it suck more. If you're going to break it down into regional skills, then you should seriously beef up the range of things it can tell you about.

Bravo.

Also, the fact that you can possibly get info with it on humanoids, clearly defines it as a wide scope skill.

I might ask the PC's to spend a few days in a new locale before using it, just so that they have time to amass whatever gossip there is at that particular location, but IMC, there is only one Knowledge Local skill.

 

[Spatula]

So you're saying that if a PC in your game walked into a new town, and wanted to know who the mayor was, Gather Info would not work for them?

The PC needs to go into bars and spend gold just to find out the name of the mayor? That's a little harsh.

Gather Info - find out current rumors
Knowledge (local) - knowledge of current events, medieval pop culture
Knowledge (history) - knowledge of ancient history

Finding out who's mayor would require asking someone on the street. And a DC 0 Diplomacy check.

IMO, of course. Know (local) is more than a little vague. One houserule I've thought of would be that you must pick an area for the skill, which affects how deep your knowledge is - the broader the area, the less precise the information you can get with it (i.e. the higher the DCs for obscure info).

 

[dogoftheunderworld]

Previously, we used the PC's homeland/region/city for K(Local) checks.

In my new Eberron campaign, I'm trying a different approach (similar to what's described in the above mentioned Dragonshards article). K(Local) is a character's knowledge of general happenings in humanoid cultures. He knows general items about the current location, based on that culture, i.e.:
"Orcs always have a shared hut at the center of their village for childcare."
"The captain of the guard should know who is in charge, let's ask him."
"The goblins probably have their weapons cache hidden under a fire pit."
"The mayor is usually not the most powerful person in a hamlet with this type of culture."

It hasn't been a major issue yet, but we'll have to see what happens down the road as characters start moving around.

I am, in general, going to encourage using a variety of knowledge skills this campaign -- just to get the players to think about what their characters might know, or want to know.

Brian
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[cordell]

Knowledge (Local) is indeed a sucky skill, without dividing it up into different localities, like Knowledge (Local: Silverymoon) and Knowledge (Local: Waterdeep).

I mean, if you divide all the Knowledge skills into categories in your campaign, I suppose it would work. Like Knowledge (planes: Astral) and Knowledge (Planes: Ethereal) and such. Or if you want to get really ridiculous, how about, making Knowledge (Arcana: dragons) and Knowledge (Arcana: constructs) into separate skills, too?

IMHO, it's 100% clear, RAW, that ONE knowledge skill covers all the categories listed under each type of Knowledge skill. Look at Perform - do players have to buy Perform (string:Fiddle) and Perform (String: Harp) as different skills? Or just Perform (String)? I mean, they are totally different instruments, right? (sorry for the sarcasm)

For the poster who thought Gather Information should help tell a player who the current mayor is, I would think this type of basic information does not even require a roll. I mean, you can get this information from any friendly conversation in a town, right? Knowledge (local) is used to determine if you already know who the mayor is, without needing to ask anyone. Now, if you wanted to find out who the mayor's friends are, that's a different story, and covered under Gather Information.

 

[Liquidsabre]

As it is in the core rules, it covers EVERYWHERE. You know stuff about wherever you happen to be.

Exactly what makes the skill so silly, especially if a character has never been to a place before. If a DM rules they can't use the skill when they've never been there before, what's the point of taking the skill in the first place?

Even as that, it's an uncommon skill for PC's to take, because, frankly, it sucks.

So don't go out of your way to make it suck more. If you're going to break it down into regional skills, then you should seriously beef up the range of things it can tell you about.

Yup, broken down into regional locales, the Knowledge (Local) skill can encompass a whole wide range of knowledge concerning the locale selected. Knowledge (Cormyr) or Knowledge (Waterdeep) allowing a character to make knowledge checks to see if they know any particular factoids, laws, customs, major shops and guilds (or major cities), etc. of the city of waterdeep or the nation of Cormyr.

Using the skill like this, we now have a useful skill that makes sense.

 

[Trainz]

Exactly what makes the skill so silly, especially if a character has never been to a place before. If a DM rules they can't use the skill when they've never been there before, what's the point of taking the skill in the first place?

Like I said in my previous post, allow a player in a new locale to spend a few days in the locale to amass the necessary data for the skill. He doesn't need to actively seek out data: by having the skill, he has a nack to naturally hear the info and gather it.

Permitting less is a guarantee that your players will not put ranks in that skill.