Kobold That Walks, Round Two!
- Thread starter moritheil
- Start date
MarkB
Legend
Well, last time I looked at this character concept it was for a PC, so my considerations were a little different - but in the end, I couldn't think of all that many circumstances in which the wall effect would be both useful and effective to the dragon shaman's allies without also inconveniencing them. It seemed like an excessively situational effect to spend a feat on - whereas entangling one's foes will always be useful.moritheil said:
On the other hand, an NPC doesn't have all these considerations. It doesn't matter that the wall effect is highly situational, if the scene in which you're using the NPC happens to be just such a situation.
green slime
First Post
Klixxit should've picked up the "Transdimensional Spell" metamagic feat... (although it probably wasn't in existance back then...)
Obviously a dragon shaman should not fight alone if at all possible . . . so we are looking at different scenarios.
barsoomcore
Unattainable Ideal
Completely off-topic, but:
green slime: update your lava rules banner.
That is all.
green slime: update your lava rules banner.
That is all.
Dragonwriter
First Post
If the Kobolds are LE, you could have some of them go Paladin of Tyranny (from Unearthed Arcana)...
The Dragon Shaman in the middle of a bunch of warrior-types with the "Double Draconic Aura" feat from Dragon Magic, using the Power and either Energy Barrier or Vigor auras would be a nasty surprise. Toss in another Dragon Shaman with two other auras, like the other second choice and Toughness, and you have the potential for brutality.
A natural thought- What do kobolds usually work for? Toss in some young-ish dragons that were either entrusted to the tribe for safety, or are rulers (like 3rd or 2nd in command) over the tribe with Mama & Papa being top bosses.
Then, there are "spellflinging spears" out of Races of the Dragon. Basically a "+1 returning spell storing spear" that can also change size (short-, long-, or regular spear) with a command word. Sors or Clrs with those, use ones pumped with lightning bolt or harm/heal or other powerful attack spells that would cause some major pain. Add on a "creature bane" effect and you have even more pain.
And, just to reinforce something almost everyone else has said- Lots of nasty-yet-wonderful traps!
The Dragon Shaman in the middle of a bunch of warrior-types with the "Double Draconic Aura" feat from Dragon Magic, using the Power and either Energy Barrier or Vigor auras would be a nasty surprise. Toss in another Dragon Shaman with two other auras, like the other second choice and Toughness, and you have the potential for brutality.
A natural thought- What do kobolds usually work for? Toss in some young-ish dragons that were either entrusted to the tribe for safety, or are rulers (like 3rd or 2nd in command) over the tribe with Mama & Papa being top bosses.
Then, there are "spellflinging spears" out of Races of the Dragon. Basically a "+1 returning spell storing spear" that can also change size (short-, long-, or regular spear) with a command word. Sors or Clrs with those, use ones pumped with lightning bolt or harm/heal or other powerful attack spells that would cause some major pain. Add on a "creature bane" effect and you have even more pain.
And, just to reinforce something almost everyone else has said- Lots of nasty-yet-wonderful traps!
moritheil
First Post
Just my thoughts:
- Paladin of Tyranny is most excellent, though offset by the fact that Kobolds are not good melee fighters.
- Dragons would definitely be great, but with the FoP they'd be either a TPK or an abusable toy for the rest of the campaign. This is the major issue with FoP, actually.
- Spellflinging spears run into the problem that Kobold weapon damage is just not credible. Plus I don't even know if they can hit unless the group wants to be hit, unless I go in and make fighter/mage built kobolds.
I wound up running the encounter in a room with an altar keyed against non-LEs. The kobold worm that walks and his iron golem beat down almost the entire melee line, forcing two of them to flee and spreading nasty fear effects before the worm botched a couple saves in a row and was promptly turned into a vegetable. It was a CR 15 encounter for a group of eight ECL 14 characters, so it doesn't surprise me too much that it wasn't hard. At one point two characters were in danger of death, but the worm's fear effect caused them to flee after which they got stitched up.
All in all I'm thinking about the worm template: it did turn a scrawny kobold caster into a formidable melee threat, but it also cost 3 levels of spellcasting. That basically amounts to one higher spell level. Realistically, in a fight, if the worm manages to use its ability successfully, it has gained something equivalent to the effect of an 8th level spell. Not worth it at high levels, but totally worth it at this level.
- Paladin of Tyranny is most excellent, though offset by the fact that Kobolds are not good melee fighters.
- Dragons would definitely be great, but with the FoP they'd be either a TPK or an abusable toy for the rest of the campaign. This is the major issue with FoP, actually.
- Spellflinging spears run into the problem that Kobold weapon damage is just not credible. Plus I don't even know if they can hit unless the group wants to be hit, unless I go in and make fighter/mage built kobolds.
I wound up running the encounter in a room with an altar keyed against non-LEs. The kobold worm that walks and his iron golem beat down almost the entire melee line, forcing two of them to flee and spreading nasty fear effects before the worm botched a couple saves in a row and was promptly turned into a vegetable. It was a CR 15 encounter for a group of eight ECL 14 characters, so it doesn't surprise me too much that it wasn't hard. At one point two characters were in danger of death, but the worm's fear effect caused them to flee after which they got stitched up.
All in all I'm thinking about the worm template: it did turn a scrawny kobold caster into a formidable melee threat, but it also cost 3 levels of spellcasting. That basically amounts to one higher spell level. Realistically, in a fight, if the worm manages to use its ability successfully, it has gained something equivalent to the effect of an 8th level spell. Not worth it at high levels, but totally worth it at this level.
VanRichten
First Post
Sounds to me kinda like you are trying to throw an entire kobold tribe at your players but do it in waves. To do this lets look at the fact that Kobolds are LE and Intelligent so one could gather they would have some form of organized society. With that in mind you could follow this idea.
Pyramid it out with the top being the final encounter.
Top Tier: "Great One", Old Blue Dragon who is being worshipped by the kobold tribe. He himself is a cleric of Tiamat, placed where he is due to some machination on Tiamats part unknown to the PCs. By the time your PC's reach him this should be a tough fight to start with, so play with the fact that he has a horde of magic items to draw upon. Don't forget he is worshipped by kobolds and probably has learned a few things about making traps to boot.
Second Tier: "Exalted Ones" these are 8 kobolds (equal in number to your players) who have been blessed by the "Great One". Each is a half blue dragon kobold with the inclusion of a permanent Enlarge Person effect put upon them (fudge it knowing they are not persons if you must to fit). Each is probably a paladin or cleric of tiamat but they believe it is the "Great One" who gives them their powers. I suggest using the Contemplative presitge class for these.
Third Tier: Next in line are probably your "Royal Guard" easily enough these should be some of the best of the best of your kobolds. Give them the half blue dragon template but keep them normal size. Make them mostly fighters and probably about 16 in number. There job is to guard the royal chamber of the "Great One". I suggest using the Templar prestige class for these.
Fourth Tier: Here we now include the "Azure Guard", 32 in number they are spread out to guard other areas of the castle much like the normal guard in a castle. Each of them has been infused with Electrical Resistance: 5 from their "deity", in order for them to better perform their duties. Have these composed of Hexblades, Warmages, Sorcerers, Duskblades, and Dragon Shamans. All should easily fit together.
Fifth Teir: At this point you have you basic conscript level of kobolds. Comprised of a multitiude of classes spread amongs 64 normal kobolds, though each of these have been infused with a Electricity Resistance: 5. These include you basic PHB classes.
Sixth Teir: This teir is composed of commoners for which make up the daily production of any society. 128 strong they are your farmers, bakers, hunters and what not. These include your commoner DMG classes or basic kobold from the MM.
You can easily change the dragon to any color you wish to fit any terrain you wish. Easily throw in magic items to any of the kobolds since they have a "deity" to furnish them. This all should be a nice and fun challenge for the level of players you have. And can even set forth a epic story since in the end you are killing off a son of Tiamat.
Pyramid it out with the top being the final encounter.
Top Tier: "Great One", Old Blue Dragon who is being worshipped by the kobold tribe. He himself is a cleric of Tiamat, placed where he is due to some machination on Tiamats part unknown to the PCs. By the time your PC's reach him this should be a tough fight to start with, so play with the fact that he has a horde of magic items to draw upon. Don't forget he is worshipped by kobolds and probably has learned a few things about making traps to boot.
Second Tier: "Exalted Ones" these are 8 kobolds (equal in number to your players) who have been blessed by the "Great One". Each is a half blue dragon kobold with the inclusion of a permanent Enlarge Person effect put upon them (fudge it knowing they are not persons if you must to fit). Each is probably a paladin or cleric of tiamat but they believe it is the "Great One" who gives them their powers. I suggest using the Contemplative presitge class for these.
Third Tier: Next in line are probably your "Royal Guard" easily enough these should be some of the best of the best of your kobolds. Give them the half blue dragon template but keep them normal size. Make them mostly fighters and probably about 16 in number. There job is to guard the royal chamber of the "Great One". I suggest using the Templar prestige class for these.
Fourth Tier: Here we now include the "Azure Guard", 32 in number they are spread out to guard other areas of the castle much like the normal guard in a castle. Each of them has been infused with Electrical Resistance: 5 from their "deity", in order for them to better perform their duties. Have these composed of Hexblades, Warmages, Sorcerers, Duskblades, and Dragon Shamans. All should easily fit together.
Fifth Teir: At this point you have you basic conscript level of kobolds. Comprised of a multitiude of classes spread amongs 64 normal kobolds, though each of these have been infused with a Electricity Resistance: 5. These include you basic PHB classes.
Sixth Teir: This teir is composed of commoners for which make up the daily production of any society. 128 strong they are your farmers, bakers, hunters and what not. These include your commoner DMG classes or basic kobold from the MM.
You can easily change the dragon to any color you wish to fit any terrain you wish. Easily throw in magic items to any of the kobolds since they have a "deity" to furnish them. This all should be a nice and fun challenge for the level of players you have. And can even set forth a epic story since in the end you are killing off a son of Tiamat.
Dragonwriter
First Post
moritheil said:
Actually, Kobolds can be dangerous melee fighters. As a paladin of Tyranny, they are smaller than most, and can wear just as tough armor and shields with a higher Dex than most Paladins. To be vicious, give them magic mithril full plate and mithril heavy shields. Have the local Clr/Adept buff them up with some spells. Have the paladins or fighters take Weapon Finesse to use their Dex and maybe a few levels of Rogue. Around their favorite traps, these guys will be really nasty. Have a few major tunnels, then small ones that connect all over with three-and-a-half foot tall ceilings (at best, kobolds are about 2'9") and they can take advantage of their better speed too.
I don't quite understand what you're saying about the dragons... but for the third point:
The point of the spellflinging spears isn't causing weapon damage... It's hitting to deliver a nasty spell-based surprise! If the kobolds can't hit the party, up the magic weapon bonus, or have warrior-types toss them. If the Sorcerors with "archer" support (oooooh, maybe Rogs or Rgrs w/Master thrower PrCl from Complete Warrior) hide behind a low wall or an arrow hole, unreachable to the party, the Sors cast the 3rd or lower spell, hand off the spear, the archer tosses it, it returns, archer passes it back, rinse, repeat.
Never underestimate these psycopathic little dragonblooded sadists.
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