Thanks for the review Lizard. We share some of the same experiences you did. The exceptions are below. They are just our opinions, of course, so hope it doesn't come off otherwise.
I'm guessing from your post that your group is running a 3.5 campaign right now, and it is far higher than 1st level. Now that you guys have played 4e for a few encounters at level 1, I humbly suggest you run a few encounters for 3.5 at level 1.
I can say our groups' memory of 1st level play for 3.5 is far different from reality. 1d4 HP, a couple spells per day, and otherwise shooting crossbows all day long. Very boring, very easy to die, and a huge lack of anything resembling fun. If you guys do try this, let us know if their opinion changes.
(grin) That doesn't help. Our wizard was feeling the jealous stares of his allies from many-a-burst. Show your wizard player the PHB-Lite for how bursts look and try another encounter with several minions getting blasted away with one wiz power.
Our group had issues with this power too. Normally, if one hits with their "save ends" type power, the "hit" effect takes affect immediately, and there is no save made right away. Foes are not granted a save to negate it until the end of THEIR next turn. Thus, the power that hits is guaranteed to have an ongoing effect that lasts at least 1 round.
Sleep wording seems to indicate the wizard casts, hits, enemies are immediately slowed. Then on foes' turns (end of their turns, after they've acted), they make a save vs. the slow. If they fail that, they immediately fall asleep. If they make their save, however, they are not asleep, and the slow ends. Net result is they only were slowed for 1 turn.
This seems different from the rest of the known powers (at least, off the top of my head). Most powers' primary function happens immediately if the attacker hits the defense. So if you toss a sleep spell, and your attack check hits the Will defense, they *should* fall asleep (grin). It's almost like the sleep is currently written to ramp up from slowed to asleep (sounds cool in theory, but is lame in practice as a daily power, IMHO).
We've slightly reworded the HIT effect to be this...
"Hit: The target immediately falls asleep (save ends). If target makes its save, it wakes up but is slowed (save ends)."
This way they are sleep'ed for at least one round (on a hit) and slowed for a least one round (on a miss). Only time will tell if this is too powerful, but we're guessing it isn't too power for a daily power.
Our experience was the same. We just assume its just a learning curve. We're really only fast on 3.5 because we know the rules inside and out from too many hours of gaming (chuckle).
Lizard said:
I'm guessing from your post that your group is running a 3.5 campaign right now, and it is far higher than 1st level. Now that you guys have played 4e for a few encounters at level 1, I humbly suggest you run a few encounters for 3.5 at level 1.
I can say our groups' memory of 1st level play for 3.5 is far different from reality. 1d4 HP, a couple spells per day, and otherwise shooting crossbows all day long. Very boring, very easy to die, and a huge lack of anything resembling fun. If you guys do try this, let us know if their opinion changes.
Lizard said:
(grin) That doesn't help. Our wizard was feeling the jealous stares of his allies from many-a-burst. Show your wizard player the PHB-Lite for how bursts look and try another encounter with several minions getting blasted away with one wiz power.
Lizard said:
Our group had issues with this power too. Normally, if one hits with their "save ends" type power, the "hit" effect takes affect immediately, and there is no save made right away. Foes are not granted a save to negate it until the end of THEIR next turn. Thus, the power that hits is guaranteed to have an ongoing effect that lasts at least 1 round.
Sleep wording seems to indicate the wizard casts, hits, enemies are immediately slowed. Then on foes' turns (end of their turns, after they've acted), they make a save vs. the slow. If they fail that, they immediately fall asleep. If they make their save, however, they are not asleep, and the slow ends. Net result is they only were slowed for 1 turn.
This seems different from the rest of the known powers (at least, off the top of my head). Most powers' primary function happens immediately if the attacker hits the defense. So if you toss a sleep spell, and your attack check hits the Will defense, they *should* fall asleep (grin). It's almost like the sleep is currently written to ramp up from slowed to asleep (sounds cool in theory, but is lame in practice as a daily power, IMHO).
We've slightly reworded the HIT effect to be this...
"Hit: The target immediately falls asleep (save ends). If target makes its save, it wakes up but is slowed (save ends)."
This way they are sleep'ed for at least one round (on a hit) and slowed for a least one round (on a miss). Only time will tell if this is too powerful, but we're guessing it isn't too power for a daily power.
Lizard said:
Our experience was the same. We just assume its just a learning curve. We're really only fast on 3.5 because we know the rules inside and out from too many hours of gaming (chuckle).
