Lack of Interest in MOTW?

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

I agree with the Kaptain.

Knight Protector of the Great Kingdom: A very generic concept and easily adaptable to a wide variety of settings. This, conceptually, is everything that the core prestige classes should have been. I can plop this prestige class down into many different campaigns and it still has a lot of flavor and direct relevance to the history of the setting, whatever setting it is.

I agree with you. But I prefer the Purple Dragon Knight from the FRCS to the Knight Defender from S&F, however.

The master of chains, even if very niche oriented, is still likely to see more use in my campaign (at least as a villainous NPC) than the ninja of the crescent moon, red avenger, ghostwalker or master samurai. It's a cool concept, but of course it doesn't fit many settings. Great for making a half-fiend kyton/master of chains though!

I don't mind a few quirky PrCs but a whole book of them (like DoF) is way too much! And why is the FRCS and MoF full of cooler PrCs than the PrC class books? Hmmm...

 

[EverSoar]

I've Been waiting for it for AGES. I play the druid of the group, with another ranger. Although he's already decided to follow in the path of Psionic Warrior, he's still interested in some of the stuff.

I haven't been too upset at the length of time, because we ruled, that we don't use any information from the class books, until everyone has them, for each. So now that MoTW is almost out, we can actually makes use of them.

 

[reapersaurus]

But I expect PrCs that are as applicable to PCs as NPCs, plus useful feats, skills, magic items and spells.

Until this thread I had only heard people saying that "The PrC's are SUPPOSED to be for NPC's and DM's to use... not players!"

I think that's hogwash, and I'm glad that SOME other people expected to have useable stuff for Player Characters in the classbooks!

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Until this thread I had only heard people saying that "The PrC's are SUPPOSED to be for NPC's and DM's to use... not players!"

I think that's hogwash, and I'm glad that SOME other people expected to have useable stuff for Player Characters in the classbooks!

reaper, my redoubtable and feisty friend, I have no idea where you've been hearing such stuff. Until your post, it never even crossed my mind that there were folk out there who seemed to think PrC's were not for PCs. If that's so, then they are a benighted and silly folk. What, they don't like for players to have fun while they game?

Anyway, I'll go off on my PrC rant now, in which I lament the fact that many people seem to get hung up on fluff text for, well, anything, but for the purposes of this thread, PrC's. many claim that this or that PrC can't be used, or is not generic enough, or isn't specific enough, for their respective campaigns, but I've found that many PrC's can fill many different roles once one looks simply at the PrC's powers and abilities and forgets the fluff text. Take that Drunken Master PrC in Sword and Fist. It's one of my favorite examples. I've pointed out before that if one simply renames the class something like Dwarven Tavern Brawler, and comes up with a fairly simple backstory, suddenly the class seems all new. Many PrC's are the same way.

Uh, what was the topic again...?

 

[Plane Sailing]

I, at least, am eagerly awaiting information about MotW. I posted a list of some of the new druid spells on the message boards a few days ago, but it didn't draw much attention, so maybe there is a little jadedness about the subject now.

I have high hopes for this one, since they seem to be getting better with practice (although I hope no class gets as badly treated as the Bard in S&S)

Cheers

 

[Dinkeldog]

I'm planning on getting it.

 

[UD]

Im salvating at the thought of it in my stiky paws... er.. I mean hands...

 

[Ialdabode]

As I've picked up all the other ones, I'll definitely get MotW to finish my collection (as it were).

That said, the thing that has disappointed me the most in the books (aside from some book's *cough - DotF - cough* massive amount of Greyhawk specific material) is the prestige classes. They're too... stupid.

Take S&S for example. Where are the generic concept PrCs? Where is the gypsy? The herald? The charlatan? Where is our generic thief? How about the thug?

Bottom line is the class books have been severely hit or miss. From my own personal use I'd have to rate them like this:

S&F: Errataed feats are decent, some of the prestige classes are general enough to be useful (duelist, gladiator, cavalier, order of the bow) but the ones that aren't suck HARD. The weapon equivalents are very useful. Gameplay information is worthless at worst and uninsightful at best.

DotF: Feats and magic items are nice and the paladin mount rules are very good. Half the book is wasted for someone who doesn't use Greyhawk. The presitge classes are mostly uninteresting and a marked deficiency on those paladins can use is present.

T&B: The feats and spells make this book. The prestige classes are mostly lame and useless.

S&S: Easily the worst of the class books. Most of the feats are stupid dual focus variants, the prestige classes are awful, and the section on bardic instruments just bogs the game down. The poison and trap section is the only good part of this book.

That said, I expect MotW to bite.

 

[Henry]

As long as opinions are being bandied about without weapon sheaths, I might as well bandy mine.

With no disrespect to Ryan "Rangerwickett", While he had excellent ideas for class books (and fooled us all more than once), these ideas were not fleshed out and made playable. WHile I commend his work, I suggest that it not be compared to WotC's before BOTH are sitting on the table in complete form. Concepts are one thing, actual design work and playtesting are a whole other ballpark.

My assessments of the classbooks:

S&F - So far, only Sword and fist has struck me as the least useable, and that only because of the truckload of errors. The other books, despite having errors, was largely not unplayable because of them, whereas Sword and Fist was, until recently. Most of the weapons, Prestige classes, and Feats had errors of some sort in them (including the lasck of "Fighter" designation on certain feats).

DoF - Great book, once I had time to decipher it. A lot of DM's however, do not devote a lot of time to additional cleric information, or already have their pantheons fleshed out such that this info is not "planned for". For me, I found the "Turning" feats quite useful - never before has the Clerical Turning attempts been useful for something besides turning things!

T&B - Great book, nothing more needs be said. Only a few major mistakes (such as bladesinger).

S&S - Contrary to other opinion, this is my favorite book besides Tome and Blood. Rogues are always near and dear to my heart, and contrary to belief, the Bards are treated in this book - looking at the Feats (Requiem, Green music, the various combo feats for intimidation and diplomacy and info gathering), and the prestige classes (one of which is MADE for Bards), and devoting (what? 5 pages?) space to musical insturments was a great campaign enhancer - not every bard wants to carry a lute or a harp! And in my opinion those really neat spells in the back were not there for the benefit of Rogues, either. In all, quite a useful book for Rogue players and those running an all-rogue or all-bard campaign.

MotW - I await this with great interest, because most of the feats in there will make playing a Barbarian or a Druid worthwhile to me. I have never played a 3E druid, and this book may make me want to play one. The Wild Shape rules alone will be useful to both Druids and Rangers, and may help make the class a little less front-loaded.

One of my hopes is that they make suggestions for an alternate "weapons code" for Druids - one that actually makes sense instead of the hodgepodge included in the PHB. I remember people on these boards trying to make an oath or vow that fit these weapons, and it was the wierdest exercise I have ever seen (besides the fight between the Halfling Commoner and the Kitty Cat.)

In short, I found the class books more useful than most here, apparently, and while they aren't perfect, they have found use in every 3E campaign so far we have played.

 

[Wolfspider]

Wow. All of this negativity about the class books really surprises me. I thought that all of them were pretty good (although I was amused at all of the errors in Sword & Fist). The Prestige Classes have given me lots of ideas on how to create other such classes, and the sample information on organizations and campaign ideas have been thought provoking. Of course, I do run a campaign in the World of Greyhawk, so hearing about Hextor and other Greyhawk specific deities doesn't bother me at all.

I think that the class books have been quite worthwhile--not perfect, of course, but certainly not completely worthless as some here have claimed.

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Wolfspider

Founder of B.A.D.D. -- Bothered About Disposable Dragons

Charir *darastrix*! *Osvith*!

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