LANTERN ARCHON -- ideas on EL

[moritheil]

That's a priceless mental image.

Lantern archon with a cloth bag over it: "Augh! I can't see!"

Getting back to the point, it seems that that might be approaching houserule territory - certainly it's possible to make the lantern archon work with houserules, as numerous posters have suggested. But RAW they face serious difficulties at higher levels.

 

[javcs]

Yeah, he's got perfect fly, but all that'd take is a wind effect and he's screwed.

At higher levels, dodging 21 points of damage from one attack isn't that great - he's still gonna get clobbered on the next attack.
Even at lower levels, say, a fireball, or a volley or two of magic missiles, or some other area effect, and he's pasted.

 

[Question]

So at lower level their entire benefit to the party is permanent aid, magic circle against evil and possibly aura of menance.

First 2, a good cleric can do that and more(although certaintly not permanent, but close enough so it doesnt matter), the latter isnt that much of a big deal once the monster saves start ramping up against a static DC, and its easy to hit the lantern archon and make the penalties go away.

 

[Evilhalfling]

That's a priceless mental image.

Lantern archon with a cloth bag over it: "Augh! I can't see!"

no no its got eyeholes to see out of

still im liking the floating bag image - add glammerd to the cloth or mithril chain? armor
and you become the floating ball in a sack for all occasions!

You could also wrap stuff around you like a belt or even an amulet if DM was generous ....
nope this is looking as dumb as a druid in amimal form with nine magic items.

 

[sdt]

Just a friendly FYI: "Factoid" is incorrect information or data that's taken as fact. I know they use it on TV but they usually use it incorrectly.

 

[pawsplay]

I think my final word is +3, with the understanding he is going to be somewhat hosed just by the nature of the character.

 

[Question]

I think my final word is +3, with the understanding he is going to be somewhat hosed just by the nature of the character.

So, say, a level 7 lantern archon cleric, ECL 10, no magical items except ioun stones, technically no armor or weapons either, must take eschew materials or cannot cast spells with material components(and cannot cast spells with expensive material components till epic levels), cannot turn undead as he has no holy symbol, cannot carry anything at all, if party member is dying cannot stabilise with heal check, cannot melee(no divine power, sorry), and has 7d8+conmod hp, AC 16(sucidal at this level) with 14 dex, int penalty(lesser skill points for knowledge or whatever).........

How does this even remotely comparable to a level 10 human cleric?

Or a lantern archon wizard, cant even open his own spellbook?

Playing a lantern archon is sucidal at +3 LA. I dont think you are correctly comprehending just how much of a negative LA adjustment -10 str -4 int with no ability to wear anything is. By the RAW +4 str with -2 wis -2 cha is arguments for a +1 LA. By the RAW -10 str is at least -4 LA alone(possibly -5), -4 int is another -1 or 2, and inability to wear anything is at least -4.

 

[brehobit]

I'd allow VoP. With that things are (almost) doable.

Takes care of the expensive material components issue. I was thinking a sorc. with well chosen spells would do okay. Between mage hand and a familiar you'd be okay at a lot of things. And teleport as a SU ability is really really handy. It would be a fun, but non-optimal character. I don't know the LA buyback rules, but I think they might help here (if used).

The big issue, IMO, would be hit points. That part would really suck. A lot. And the lack of feats (you really need 3 feats to be useful, (the two for VoP and Eschew Materials)). Ick.

Too powerful? Maybe. Too weak? Certainly. Probably fun, but hard to DM for.... Probably best it doesn't have an LA in the book...

Mark

So, say, a level 7 lantern archon cleric, ECL 10, no magical items except ioun stones, technically no armor or weapons either, must take eschew materials or cannot cast spells with material components(and cannot cast spells with expensive material components till epic levels), cannot turn undead as he has no holy symbol, cannot carry anything at all, if party member is dying cannot stabilise with heal check, cannot melee(no divine power, sorry), and has 7d8+conmod hp, AC 16(sucidal at this level) with 14 dex, int penalty(lesser skill points for knowledge or whatever).........

How does this even remotely comparable to a level 10 human cleric?

Or a lantern archon wizard, cant even open his own spellbook?

Playing a lantern archon is sucidal at +3 LA. I dont think you are correctly comprehending just how much of a negative LA adjustment -10 str -4 int with no ability to wear anything is. By the RAW +4 str with -2 wis -2 cha is arguments for a +1 LA. By the RAW -10 str is at least -4 LA alone(possibly -5), -4 int is another -1 or 2, and inability to wear anything is at least -4.

 

[Stalker0]

How does this even remotely comparable to a level 10 human cleric?

Or a lantern archon wizard, cant even open his own spellbook?

And somehow, the reason the latern archon doesn't have a LA is starting to make sense

This is the problem you face, some of the abilities of the archon are tremendously good (teleport at will, very nice DR, at will spells) that a high LA is called for. But he also has some killer weaknesses (that makes a high LA hard to play). Its a dichotomy that may not have a truly good solution.

 

[Question]

What is a lantern archon going to do with teleport at will? Keep in mind he cannot carry anything, so its just him.

Profession(Messenger)?

Detect evil and continual flame at will is not worth any LA. At all. So the party gets free detect evil(which a paladin can do, and there are tons of ways to block that, and its mostly useful for RPing and checking which guys in the tavern are evil), and free continual flame torches(each worth slightly over 50 gp). Unless the party is abusing this by trying to mass sell continual flame torches, i dont think this is going to be an issue(and the DM can easily step in if they do try that, i doubt celestia will be impressed by a lantern archon screwing up mortal economies).

DR 10/evil and magic is nice, but many many enemies the party face are completely capable of bypassing this.....quite possibly the 2nd most likely DR to be bypassed, 1st being DR/magic. And this doesnt prevent the lantern archon from dying due to his non-existent AC(full attacks FTW).

A sorc with eschew materials can cast spells, but he would have a LA adjustment, and be essentially one feat down as he HAS to take eschew materials. A human sorc would beat the pants off a lantern archon sorc(as he would with any LA race with a caster class, but thats a different thing).