LANTERN ARCHON -- ideas on EL

[brehobit]

Thanks all,
That's about what I was going to put it at (+4). +5 might be better (I'm assuming it can cast without penalty...)

Thanks,
Mark

 

[moritheil]

Actually, the Lantern Archon is given a cohort LA of +4 in BoED. I would leave it at +4, as some of the tricks casters like to use (such as going invisible) don't really work so well for a lantern archon. As such, it's either inefficient as a caster, or inefficient with its teleport (the best synergy of teleport at will is generally with a caster class.)

Also, no one seems to have mentioned the downside that a lantern archon does not threaten a space and can never take AOOs (unless, presumably, one builds a peerless archer lantern archon.)

 

[Infiniti2000]

Without hands, it couldn't cast any spells with somatic components. (And, can Lantern Archons speak? If not, no verbal components either).

Sure, it could: "A spellcasting creature that lacks hands or arms can provide any somatic component a spell might require by moving its body." Unfortunately, it will have difficulty with material components and foci so it will have to choose its spells appropriately. Also, it has tongues always active, so it must be able to speak somehow. I thought I remember it saying somewhere that they "speak" by vibrating their bodies?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Also, no one seems to have mentioned the downside that a lantern archon does not threaten a space and can never take AOOs (unless, presumably, one builds a peerless archer lantern archon.)

That's almost a non-issue with many builds, particularly those who don't plan on getting into melee anyway.

 

[moritheil]

That's almost a non-issue with many builds, particularly those who don't plan on getting into melee anyway.

It's a nonissue for a caster, but a huge issue for a rogue (one of the suggested uses.) For example, it's impossible to build into (or use) the opportunist/sneak attack AOO feat chain. And the light rays have a limit of 30', which means that there's no point in playing a sniper rogue - the entire point of that is to arrange things so you can sneak attack from 60' or more.

 

[Stalker0]

It's a nonissue for a caster, but a huge issue for a rogue (one of the suggested uses.) For example, it's impossible to build into (or use) the opportunist/sneak attack AOO feat chain. And the light rays have a limit of 30', which means that there's no point in playing a sniper rogue - the entire point of that is to arrange things so you can sneak attack from 60' or more.

Just because one specialized rogue build doesn't work, doesn't mean other rogue builds are not very effective. However, the fact that the archon cannot flank is a big deal for a rogue. But even so, its still worth a +4 or +5 to me.

 

[Question]

This looks like a negative LA to me. You miss a ton of body slots, no hands, you can only fly around and shoot light rays........

 

[Fieari]

The "Magic Circle vs Evil" at will alone means it CAN'T be a negative LA. That's just too good, really.

I agree with +4 though.

 

[Question]

Until you get to a certain level where a magic circle vs evil at will is lolerskates, but you are still paying LA for it. So what are you going to do with it, fly around and provide a magicle vs evil constantly? Instead of doing everything else a normal party member can do?

 

[javcs]

From the MM description they're gaseous balls of light (essentially) and therefore are essentially useless for manipulating objects.
Though, technically small size with a reach of 5ft, they've got no melee attacks. Unless I'm missing something fairly major here, they could, by the RAW, be monks - and that would solve their lack of melee armament for AoOs in rogue builds - though, they're probably better off sticking with Monk.
With the LA of +4 or more, they'd be taking a big hit to their spellcasting ability as compared to other party casters.

Go Warlock - depending on how you picked your invocations, you could be pretty irritating.

I'd still personally probably take a Musteval (BoED) over a Lantern Archon.