D&D 5E last encounter was totally one-sided

[CapnZapp]

This bit really puzzles me.

How can monsters function well at the table if the DM is not interested in playing to their abilities. How can a "well built" monster function without you making tactical decisions for it in the moment? And if you're not thinking about how your monsters work how do you choose actions for them?

I must be not understanding something pretty fundamental?

You shouldn't really read too much into it.

Look it merely as an response to those dismissing me with a casual "just have all your monsters act like superbrains and the difficulty problem is solved".

 

[dave2008]

I would say one important component you're not including here Dave is

High-level play.

Not only do instawin buttons start to appear (like forcecage), previously unreliable spells start to become very reliable.

High level monsters and player characters start getting the ability to oneshot each other. Of course that increases swinginess.

(Or perhaps I should say regain that ability. Because D&D has always been swingy at level 1.)

That is true, but it is also dependent on your PCs selecting those instawin buttons. 95% of the time my PCs don't.

 

[CapnZapp]

Sounds like a curb stomp. And I completely agree about non-proficient saves causing a problem at high levels, compounding that Monk stun-lock is

It sounds like your party synergies very well, especially SS/GWM with stunlock, plus using battlefield control to carve a combat into smaller pieces. This is cool, but not something every party does so I wouldn't expect foes to be balanced against high-functioning parties like this. I'd say it's above normal and you need to compensate, but considering the foes it sounds like you did compensate already and it still went off like this. Wow.

Thank you

1. Sharpshooter. No disadvantage from range. (Really, the entire Crossbow Expert build pretty much relies on Sharpshooter, since with a paltry 30" range the build would indeed fall apart)
2. I agree there is no reason she couldn't have started shifted. I guess I wanted to surprise them (and play up her haugtiness), playing on their curiousness "what kind of foe is she?". After all, credit must go to the monk player, who just before the fight broke out ran over to the other side of the square. And that was a big ass square, making only long range spells work for that crucial first round.

I have failed to mention the role of the Warlock familiar. Having an invisible flying Imp is a huge help, and it's just another case where some other caster would settle for a rat or something, which doesn't have nearly the same utility.

Sure the Imp isn't a super-scout, but it doesn't need to be when the Perception rules are so phenomenally generous as they are in this edition. With monster passive perception scores rarely breaking 15, 5th Edition treats skulking around as a literally common task, even against epic threats. (Based on how DC 10 is appropriate for a commoner and DC 15 for a regular folk hero)

 

[CapnZapp]

Also, you mentioned this was a single combat day. It sounds like the PCs used more then 1/6-1/8 of their daily resources in terms of spells and Ki points on it, so it's not that surprising that other resources (like HPs) weren't spent. This isn't criticizing how you're running, just commenting about how the balance points for long-rest resources are designed in 5e. If you threw this exact encounter at them twice more in the same day with a short rest between them how do you think it would have ended? Because that's what the system is designed around.

Not sure how to respond.

This I meant to be a Boss fight at 100%. I amped up the opposition to match that (or at least, I thought I did No seriously, I know I did. They just happened to roll a critical success on their Encounter Check )

The idea to throw yet another such encounter at them is... I mean, I'm baffled.

But also seriously impressed. You are truly hardcore, Sir!

 

[CapnZapp]

Personally I would have run them very differently.

Feel free to simply let it go

I mean, you wouldn't have run them the way you describe in your post.

You would have followed the guidelines, replacing that one encounter with eight encounters with completely different monsters, amirite?

 

[dave2008]

This bit really puzzles me.

How can monsters function well at the table if the DM is not interested in playing to their abilities. How can a "well built" monster function without you making tactical decisions for it in the moment? And if you're not thinking about how your monsters work how do you choose actions for them?

I must be not understanding something pretty fundamental?

I think I understand what CapnZapp is saying. When I design a high level monster I generally provide at least two levels of monster mastery. Such as:

Level 1) The monsters attacks and traits a easily understood on the page and designed to simply provide the required attack / damage and defense/hp to survive 3-5 rounds. Since I also believe monsters are a bit weak mine have higher defenses and do more damage. This is simple straight forward attack and defend.

Level 2) The monsters spells and/or traits complement each other and allow you to run them with more system mastery and they will be a more difficult / challenging opponent.

Level 3) The monsters spells and/or traits complement its minions, making them tougher.

Basically, my monsters are already set at 11, with dials to take them to 12 or 13

 

[Flamestrike]

You shouldn't really read too much into it.

Look it merely as an response to those dismissing me with a casual "just have all your monsters act like superbrains and the difficulty problem is solved".

Except these creatures were all superbrains.

We're talking an immortal undead tactician akin to Lord Soth leading an Archdruid [with a Wisdom of 20], with backup from a 15th level Diviner [with a Int of 18] and a plethora of scrying magic and a 17th level Warlock who communes with the devil and can literally walk through planes of reality.

Them all strolling into town with the tactical and strategic nous of a bunch of 1st level PCs played by 12 year old kids stretches my credulity considerably.

Feel free to simply let it go

I mean, you wouldn't have run them the way you describe in your post.

You would have followed the guidelines, replacing that one encounter with eight encounters with completely different monsters, amirite?

I knew it. This is just another attempt by you to lay the boot into 5Es encounter and challenge meta.

Ironically all you've demonstrated is an inability to run high level threats and high level encounters.

In other words, you've actually shown the problem lies with you and not with the game.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Except these creatures were all superbrains.

We're talking an immortal undead tactician akin to Lord Soth leading an Archdruid [with a Wisdom of 20], with backup from a 15th level Diviner [with a Int of 18] and a plethora of scrying magic and a 17th level Warlock who communes with the devil and can literally walk through planes of reality.

Them all strolling into town with the tactical and strategic nous of a bunch of 1st level PCs played by 12 year old kids stretches my credulity considerably..

that was kinda my thought as well. I mean, they had a DIVINER in their group. His/her entire JOB was to find out as much info about the party as possible lol. Also, level 14 PCs typically have a reputation at that point, so any group planning on taking them on should have done their homework. Unless I'm missing something and this was a random spur of the moment combat or something. And even then, just because a fighter type excels at fighting doesn't mean they would skip their massive AOE and basically do nothing for an entire round moving. A PC wouldn't do that, would they?

I mean, ultimately if that's how he wanted to run that encounter, that's all that's important; not my opinion at any rate. but a few things kinda stood out to me. I would definitely caution against using the OP's example as a typical high level encounter.

 

[CapnZapp]

In other words, you've actually shown the problem lies with you and not with the game.

Oh, so the badwrongfun card. Thank you for playing it.

You're just proving my point - but we can talk about that in another thread.

 

[CapnZapp]

Except these creatures were all superbrains.

We're talking an immortal undead tactician akin to Lord Soth leading an Archdruid [with a Wisdom of 20], with backup from a 15th level Diviner [with a Int of 18] and a plethora of scrying magic and a 17th level Warlock who communes with the devil and can literally walk through planes of reality.

Nah, it was just a bunch of mostly low-CR foes.








(Well, three out of five had a single digit CR. That counts as "mostly low-CR", right? )