Lay on hands and temporary charisma boost

[Li Shenron]

One problem with treating them like Temporary Hit Points is that if you have a Cloak of Eagle's Splendor, you get 2 * level more heal points per day. If someone casts Eagle's Splendor on you five times in the same day, you could potentially heal 2 * level * 5 more points.

If you treat them like CON bonus points to hit points (and go into negative numbers as per option #2), this does not happen.

I was too leaning towards this idea at first, but then I though that among the two the first is more useful for the characters.

In a 3.0 campaign your solution is probably better, as a ES spell would probably be cast once and last all day at that level.

But in 3.5 if someone casts ES on the Paladin five times per day, she should very well get some benefit out of it, otherwise it's a bad tactic. Now, since I don't necessarily prefer one way or the other from a rules-wise perspective, I'm definitely always willing to add a good tactic option to the game...

 

[KarinsDad]

But in 3.5 if someone casts ES on the Paladin five times per day, she should very well get some benefit out of it, otherwise it's a bad tactic. Now, since I don't necessarily prefer one way or the other from a rules-wise perspective, I'm definitely always willing to add a good tactic option to the game...

DM: "The identified item is a +4 Cloak of Charisma."
PC Wizard: "Ok Paladin, it's your cloak since it will help you most."
PC Paladin: "No, no, no, I don't want it. I'd rather have the Cleric cast Eagle's Splendor on me 5 times a day and take my share in more useful magic items."
PC Cleric: "Great. <grumble>"

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Easily resolved by using the RAW.

At any moment in time, the Paladin compares his Cha x Level with the amount of of LoHs he has used so far this day. If the the first number is higher, he may heal; if it is not, he has no LoH available to him right now. That is the correct manner you figure out if he has any LoHs left. If the second number is bigger than the first is of zero import.

This is no different then Bear's Endurance.

 

[Nail]

Yes, yes,...but what if you take the Cloak +4 off, give it to someone for a while, then put it back on?

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Wasn't there a FAQ ruling regarding Charisma and eagle's splendour, with the ruling being that enhanced Charisma does not provide additional uses of abilities based on a Cha modifier? e.g. a character that can use an ability X number of times per day does not gain more uses by casting eagle's splendour?

IIRC, then that might be useful information to look at when adjudicating this particular problem.

Personally, I'd allow the extra hp for laying on hands and just treat them as per the rules for temporary hp.

edit: I can't find the reference in the FAQ, so maybe I'm just imagining things. Or maybe it was a Sage ruling?

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Temporary hit points? Like Bear's Endurance?

Only if you like bookkeeping and confusion.

Make the straightforward calculation from the RAW on the moment by moment basis when a character wants to use a particular ability and do not befuddle yourself with nonsense about "negative Lay on Hands points left today". This is not just the best and easiest way to calculate Lay on Hands, it also applies to Turning Attempts, Divine feats, Rage, Combat Reflexes, Spells per day. If Lay on Hands confuses you, wait until you get hit by "I have a natural 12 Cha and I am wearing a +2 Cloak of Charisma. I invoke Divine Vigor. 7 rounds later I run into an Antimagic Field. I leave on the 9th round. How many rounds of Divine Vigor do I have left? One, two, three, eleven, twelve, or thirteen?"

 

[Endur]

The Paladin does not increase his laying on hands ability or his turn undeads per day when somebody casts Eagles Splendor on him. Just as he doesn't get any extra spells when somebody casts Eagles Splendor or Owls Wisdom on him.

However, he does get an increase in all three when he wears a cloak of charisma.

The difference is he can wear the cloak the whole day (at least theoretically) and receives the charisma bonus for the whole day. Whereas the Eagles Splendor bonus is only temporary.

 

[Nail]

Endur, there's no such "worn all day" distinction in 3.5e. That went out with Int boosting items increasing skill points.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The difference is he can wear the cloak the whole day (at least theoretically) and receives the charisma bonus for the whole day. Whereas the Eagles Splendor bonus is only temporary.

The RAW makes no such distinction, except where the 2nd level spell in question addresses this issue explicitly.

By the RAW, Turning Attempts available do change whenever the Cha stat shifts.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Yes, yes,...but what if you take the Cloak +4 off, give it to someone for a while, then put it back on?

I thought you were just being a smartass when I first read this. On reflection, I realize you are being a smartass but there is a serious question here.

In theory, yes, a bunch of Paladins/Clerics could pass around the best Cloak of Charisma and gain "extra" Lay on Hands and Turning Attempts as a group. I play with DMs that frown on that kind of thing and sometimes impose attunement rolls before the item starts working for the new character. Besides, we are not a greedy bunch but we do not like lending out our best items either.

With respect to Eagle's Splendor it is entirely legitimate to expend a resource to gain a different resource.