Laying out your dungeon - advice?

[AZRogue]

I've never been big on using miniatures in combat. Even when we actually had some, way back during BECMI and AD&D, we just used them for marching orders. I did use them a bit more during our flirtation with 3E and both liked and disliked certain things.

Well, I've decided to take the plunge and use some miniatures for 4E, though ONLY for important (tactically) battles AND for actual dungeon crawls. I intend for simple encounters as well as most urban/wilderness encounters to remain miniature free and will keep my traditional dry-erase board for those.

Since my group is all excited and "coming out of DnD retirement" for 4E, I decided to splurge and I bought about 500 miniatures real quick from various miniature retailers online, not including the Dungeons of Dread set (20 kobolds, 6 dire wolves, 2 beholders, 16 goblins, at least one of each Rare and a minimum of 5 of every Uncommon and Common, not counting the 500 or so from previous releases), the Icon dragons, and I also went out and bought 3 each of all the Dungeon Tiles. I figure I'm pretty much set for most dungeon crawls and encounters and will only have to pick up the occasional group of miniatures now and then as the fancy strikes me.

So, I'm looking at this heap of stuff on the table--3 large rubbermaid containers overloaded with plastic minis and a huge stack of tiles I have to eventually pop apart--and I realize that I have no real idea what to do with them. I mean, I don't have much practice using these things in actual play and I'm unsure what the best method is.

For instance, do I lay my dungeon out completely at the beginning, plopping my tiles down so I don't have to slow down play by looking for them on the fly? I have no idea how hard it's going to be to find a particular corridor or room in the middle of the game but would prefer not to have to dig for it and slow things down. BUT, laying the whole dungeon out before hand seems to take some of the fun of exploring out of the game. Which way is best?

Also, what the hell do I do with my minis? I've been considering getting all the minis together that I plan on using and placing them in seperate ziploc bags to help me find them when I need them at the table. I think that could work. It took me about 20 minutes to find the beholders in the piles I have, though, and they're not exactly hard to spot, so I know that I can't start digging for kobolds at the table. Getting the miniatures together before a game is going to have to happen, I think.

So far the idea I have is to lay the dungeon out the way I want it and then to take a digital picture of it. I can then edit the photo itself as my dm map AND use the photo to help me lay the dungeon out during play. I'll only take those tiles I need with me. That, combined with the ziploc bagged miniatures (maybe one bag per encounter? not sure) should help me keep a handle on things while still letting me lay the dungeon out as they go. I really don't think I'll like laying the whole thing out for them to see before hand.

So my question is this: What methods do you guys use to organize your tiles and miniatures for play so that they remain a game aid and not a time sink? Any tips or tricks will be appreciated as I'm a bit overwhelmed with them all at the moment.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

We haven't still found a good way to organize the tiles. We have a battlemap and marker pens that you can easily erase, and sometimes it seems easier to use them. (But the drawback is that they are almost always hard to see).

For minis, we organized the minis by type (A box for goblinoids and orcs, a box for humans, a box for elves, a box for aberrations, a box for magical beasts, a box for animals, and so on), and usually at the beginning of each session, the DM would search the monsters he wants to use. (Since we don't always have fitting minis, the "spoiling" is kept a at an acceptable rate...)

 

[AZRogue]

We haven't still found a good way to organize the tiles. We have a battlemap and marker pens that you can easily erase, and sometimes it seems easier to use them. (But the drawback is that they are almost always hard to see).

For minis, we organized the minis by type (A box for goblinoids and orcs, a box for humans, a box for elves, a box for aberrations, a box for magical beasts, a box for animals, and so on), and usually at the beginning of each session, the DM would search the monsters he wants to use. (Since we don't always have fitting minis, the "spoiling" is kept a at an acceptable rate...)

I have one of those Chessex mats that lets me draw on it with special pens. I used that for 3E those times we used miniatures (we had PC minis, but monsters were all coins and soda bottle caps, mostly). I did the tile thing this time because they look neat and decided that if I'm going to do it I want to do it right. They definitely look like a hassle to keep track of, though, especially with artwork on both sides.

Your idea for a separate box per mini type is pretty good. I'll probably try to go with that, as right now the "big pile" method is just not going to work.

 

[Valerion Steele]

right now i´m almost doing it the way you described , but with more monsters per encounter , i think i will take a big box with partitions in it to store my minis...
as for the tiles i only bring those i need and lay out exactly those the characters could see with their lightsources... really gets funny when no ones mapping to see them go like : "was it west or south?" "def´nitely west" "no, west was the dragon"... and so on.
the main point is organise your ressources so that they don´t bog down your game...

i see..those erase maps seem quite nifty...need one of those...how much are they?

 

[BeauNiddle]

I have a large(ish) stack of minis at home but before the session I go through the adventure and pick out the creatures they'll be fighting this week (while also refreshing myself on tactics and positioning).

As long as they are stored out of sight (so people don't know whats coming) but in order it's relatively easy to grab the right set.

Some get a lot of reuse (if you have 6 goblins in the first room then 8 and a worg in the next you don't need to take along 14 goblin models) but mostly you just work through the box. Special monsters you've finished with go back into the box. Mundanes you might need again go behind the DMs screen.

Also my minatures are second hand / cheap so I don't worry about damaging them so I'm quite quick setting them up. I've a few of the DDM models and they are almost indestrucible so I can be quite fast with them.

Of course if you are into a more freestyle form of DMing (or you don't know what the PCs are going to be fighting that session) then it can be more of a hassle.

I don't have any tiles myself (I use a map board and pens) but my DM in another game used them in much the same way - layout the map beforehand working out which tiles you need then put them on the side in ordered piles.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I have one of those Chessex mats that lets me draw on it with special pens. I used that for 3E those times we used miniatures (we had PC minis, but monsters were all coins and soda bottle caps, mostly). I did the tile thing this time because they look neat and decided that if I'm going to do it I want to do it right. They definitely look like a hassle to keep track of, though, especially with artwork on both sides.

Tiles definitely look better then drawing with pens. But they are little less flexible, and the double-sided artwork is need, but as you say, it doesn't make it easier to find the right tile. We tried to organize by size,but I am not convinced that that's the way to go.

If you buy the original WotC mini boxes, you've got enough boxes to organize your monsters. Otherwise, you'll have to buy/create/re-purpose your own.

 

[Dathalas]

I've been making and printing my own tiles on cardstock at the local UPS Store. I group them in file folders and put them in a big file storage box. The file storage box has plenty of room for my books, dice bag, pencil box, and other accessories, so all I have to do is grab it and go.

 

[AZRogue]

Hmm, putting the tiles in file folders could work. The only problem would be the seemingly large number of little one-square tiles for torches, holes, puddles, and stuff.

Maybe one of those hollow clipboards with the needed tiles inside? I really think that I'm going to have to bring exactly those tiles I need and not many extras. Sorting through them will slow me down.

Oh, and the other thing I'm doing that I forgot to mention is that I have two large black poster board sheets for a background and am planning on using thumb-tack putty to hold the tiles in place so they don't go sliding around. Much cleaner looking, IMO, though I can't remember where I saw it done. One of the designer blog posts I think.

Great advice so far, guys. I appreciate it. Keep it coming!

 

[Ingolf]

I ran a year+ long Ptolus game at my FLGS and used tiles for about the last 6 months or so. I ran into all of the issues you're foreseeing.

At first, I tried to lay out my tiles at home the night before the game, then I packed just the specific tiles I wanted to use to take to the store. Of course, my players immediately elected to go off in some unforeseen direction which rendered my careful tile-selecting useless. What I ultimately ended up doing was bringing a set of tiles selected to create the encounter area I *expected* to use, and then also a box of random extra bits in case the players went off on a tangent and I needed to wing it. I put the "main" tiles in a single hanging file folder in a filebox and the extras I sorted by size into a couple additional folders. In retrospect an accordion-style folder would have worked better, but that game has since moved to my basement so it's a moot point.

One thing I also learned was that, while the tile sets will get you really close to most maps, they will rarely be a perfect match. Don't sweat it - make the maps conform to the tiles you have available, if you leave out a few details here and there the adventure will not suffer, and frequently the tiles will add enough extra details and flash in other areas that it's a net win anyway.

 

[davethegame]

For dungeons, I lay it out at home using the tiles, including placing the minis on the tiles for where the monsters will be. I take a digital picture of the whole thing. I print it out and mark it up with any other notes (like traps, secret doors, etc.)

An example here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/davethegame/2378566717/in/set-72157603715642320/

Then I throw all the tiles and minis I need into a box (currently a Kinko's box.) I find it's pretty easy to go throw and lay out the tiles as I go when I have the whole map in front of me using the exact tiles.

For non-dungeons, I still throw the minis and maps/whatever into the box, and just mark down in my notes what I use where.