Leader Role: The end of the cleric?

[hong]

Forget Healing, other classes can do that (Bards, Paladins, Favored Souls, Dragon Shamen, Druid -- specially if the Druid has the Spontaneous Rejuvenation option from PHB2). But where the cleric really shines in against undead. Between Turn Undead, restoration, cure spells = damage, death ward, etc, clerics are THE class to battle the living dead.

So, is that still a concern? Is that role fillable?

I'll be very happy if they ditch this undead thing forever more. There is no reason why all clerics (good or evil) should have a thing about undead, and only undead. In the grand scheme of D&D, they're not even the nastiest monsters out there.

 

[Cadfan]

On one hand, other "leader" type classes will release some of the cleric's stranglehold as a must-have class. But on the other hand, fixing the cleric will remove some of the pain of playing a cleric, making it a more popular class.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I guess turn undead is derived from the crucific vs. vampire bit in horror movies.

 

[hong]

I guess turn undead is derived from the crucific vs. vampire bit in horror movies.

Oh, definitely. I've always been curious though why vampire turning became its own mechanic, when stuff like exorcising demons fell under the umbrella of spellcasting.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

This has probably been said already, but in the interest of time I wasn't able to read the entire thread. But I'd love to see one of each type of "power source" for the four roles. So arcane, divine, martial for striker, defender, leader, and controller.

That would give us 12 core classes. I suspect we won't be seeing that many, which is unfortunate. It would add some very interesting diversity to the game.

 

[Ashrem Bayle]

This has probably been said already, but in the interest of time I wasn't able to read the entire thread. But I'd love to see one of each type of "power source" for the four roles. So arcane, divine, martial for striker, defender, leader, and controller.

That would give us 12 core classes. I suspect we won't be seeing that many, which is unfortunate. It would add some very interesting diversity to the game.

Agreed.
They said we'd be getting 8 classes in PHB1. Has that been set in stone?

 

[Elsenrail]

It would be wise if WotC designers took Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay corebook (or the all things priests' book) and look at WFRP concept of cleric/priest. It is much more entertaining and realistic. All priests know only basic healing spell, and a priest's spell list represent his god portfolio. So, a priest of Khaine, god of murder, knows spells about murder. The priest of Ranald, a rogue god, knows spells about theft, luck etc. The priest of the god of battle has spells particularly useful in battle. The priest of goddess of mercy and healing is an expert at healing. Etc. Etc.

It's rather silly that all clerics are healers... I don't know how evil gods (especially those like Vecna - the undead ones) can be interested in healing (for survival of their devotees - it's not enough). They should grant only their domain spells.

Amnother thing, the ritual magic is extremely easy and fun in WFRP (its more powerful than ordinary magic, since it needs xp and time... as well as ingredients). D&D doesn't have any specific rules how to perform a ritual (and there are so many of them in the novels). The ritual magic should be IMO the proper epic magic. It's a very similar concept.

 

[Gundark]

Hope so, but I suspect the cleric will be a better healer than the warlord, just as the class is currently a better healer than the druid, bard or paladin.

Considering that Andy Collins (I think) mentioned that one the of the factors that he didn't like about 3e was...

"There shouldn't be only one class that really accomplishes a key role (cleric as healer--sorry druid/favored soul/whatever, you're strictly second-rate).
And, frankly, there shouldn't be classes that fulfill multiple roles simultaneously (cleric, I'm looking in your direction again). If the fighter rolls his eyes and wonders why he bothered showing up, that's just stupid...and it's flawed game design."

 

[Jer]

Oh, definitely. I've always been curious though why vampire turning became its own mechanic, when stuff like exorcising demons fell under the umbrella of spellcasting.

And yet vampires have a special mechanic that lets anyone hold them at bay with a holy symbol, despite the cleric's "turn undead" ability already being in the game.

I'd love to see the ability to turn undead become a choice rather than a requirement for the cleric. And I'd love to see the ability changed to something different. Say, an area-of-effect attack on undead within a certain radius of the cleric causing Xd6 damage to undead in that radius, with a save for half damage? I've toyed with doing something similar in my game right now because, frankly, undead encounters with my group have recently become very much "save or die" affairs where if the cleric blows the turn check, the party gets overwhelmed very quickly (partly because of the undead I have to throw at them to make the turning check even a challenge for the cleric). They're going to TPK on undead one of these days, I just know it.

 

[lukelightning]

Can someone explain to me the rationalization behind the Warlord?...

I think the name is odd too. It's like having a "High Priest" class or 1st level Archmage.