Learning a new system

[Umbran]

...which is one reason I so loathe 3e D&D as it fails horribly at both.

*sigh*

You loathe 3e, yet you come to a 3e fan website? Okay....

You are quite welcome to your opinions, but sticking them into the middle of an otherwise unrelated thread amounts to trolling. Please don't. It detracts from more constructive discussion.

If you want to talk about how you go about learning a new system, please join in. If you want to talk about how much you hate D&D, take it elsewhere, please.

 

[Xeriar]

If there is not a specific setting, the key is character creation.

Even if there is a specific setting, the key should still be character creation, unless most new players are going to be new to the setting.

For a perfect example of how NOT to do this, check out the new Lord of the Rings RPG by Decipher. There is not a single table in the book that lists how a character is made, or even where all his skills come from.

 

[Silverthrone]

If you want to talk about how much you hate D&D, take it elsewhere, please.

You yourself pointed out, this is a 3e website. It seems a good place to discuss D&D, on a D&D website. Not all opinions are supportive ones. It would be better if people learned that.

As for learning a new system, I did state that I pretty much agreed with the previous poster's idea.

The most important thing, to me, is character creation. A system must have rules that conform to my vision of the character, instead of forcing me to conform my chracter to it's version of the rules.

A good example of this is several of the classless, levelless systems. Mainly Fuzion, BESM, and the old DC / Mayfair system that was used in Blood of Heroes. I believe it was something like the Exponential Point system, but I could be wrong on that.

Through the use of the Misc. Bonuses, Misc. Drawbacks, Misc. Advatages, Misc. Disadvatages, and similar ideals it allowed itself to be tailor fit for each individual chracters. Two people could make totally different characters with no similarities except that they could be run in the same rules system.

When I look at a new system as one I will may learn, I look for that ability first, and tied with that, the ability to be used in any setting and any tech or magic level with little adjustment of rules.

I want a system that seamlessly integrates mecha and magic, where chracter creation is so simple it can be done in your head with no need for pen and paper (To help DM adlibs.). Any system that seems to force me to make copious notes gets the thumbs down.

 

[Jeph]

I am a 13 year old boy, and have been playing DnD since a few weeks after the (horribly CRAPPY) movie came out. I had no idea it even existed before then. What I did was extreemly odd, and the completely incorrect way to go about learning DnD.

Well, my friends and I ran around LARPing for a while, and then noticed actual rules existed. I first bought the Monster Manual, to add flavor to our LARPS. Then the Dungoen Master's Guide, to add finesse. Then the Player's Handbook, becuase I wanted to know what a f****** DC was.

My advice: First, get the Player's Handbook, then the MM, then the DMG. Read the PHB in order, there's a reason why it's IN that order. As one of the few who taught themselves the game, and did not have a mentor, I should know: the format is very helpful, and you should read it page-by-page, in order. By the time you get to some sections, you may already have a pretty good idea of how they work, from explanation of abilities in earlier sections.

READ IT MORE THAN ONCE.

The fluff, or descriptive text, you can just skim. But try to get as familiar as possable with progressions, class tables, Difficutly Classes (DCs) of certain common skill tasks, common opposed skill rolls, damage of common weapons, modifiers for abilities, and the most common of spells (if you want to play a spellcaster).

I myself took 3 months to finish the book . . . It was my first RPG, but by the time I was done, I had it memorized. Give me a progression, number, spell, whatever, I can recite it off the top of my head. This is not uncommon for RPGers, and after a while, you'll be able to do this to. The progressions all follow tight patterns and don't deviate, so it isn't hard. A few common progressions . . .

Low Saves:
start at +0, increase to +1 at level 3, increase by another +1 every 3 levels thereafter.

High Saves:
Start at +2, increase by +1 on every even numbered level.

Low Base Attack:
Start at +0, increase by +1 at every odd numbered level.

Medium Base Attack:
Hard to put into words, but not that complicated in practicality.

High Base Attack:
Start at +1, increase by +1 every level

Just a bit of advice,
-Jeph

 

[Umbran]

You yourself pointed out, this is a 3e website. It seems a good place to discuss D&D, on a D&D website. Not all opinions are supportive ones. It would be better if people learned that.

I, and the other folks here, are quite aware that not all opinions are supportive. I'm not asking you to be supportive. I'm asking you to be constructive.

I pointed out that this was a D&D fan site. "Fan" is short for "fanatic". The site is built by and for people who love the game. You don't accomplish anything constructive by walking into such a place, enter a conversation that isn't even specifically about D&D, and state your loathing without adding anyting else to the conversation.

The most important thing, to me, is character creation. A system must have rules that conform to my vision of the character, instead of forcing me to conform my chracter to it's version of the rules.

Some poets look at the rules of sonnets, and claim that the form is too restrictive to yield great poetry, and that sonnets stink. Other poets look at the rules of sonnets, and find inspiration within the rules. Rather than fighting and struggling with the rules, they find ways to work with them.

If you over-specify your character concept before choosing what game you'll play it in, yes, you'll have trouble finding the right game for it. If, instead, you decide what game you'd like to play, and then develop a character concept for the game you'll probably have much better luck.

I want a system that seamlessly integrates mecha and magic, where chracter creation is so simple it can be done in your head with no need for pen and paper (To help DM adlibs.). Any system that seems to force me to make copious notes gets the thumbs down.

Ah, you want that which does not exist - the game that does everything well. No wonder you have loathing and frustration - you have unrealistic expectations.

And now I'll stop hijcaking and let the thread resume it's normal course.

 

[Shallown]

Thanks for everyone's help.

I was mainly asking becuase I have my own homebrew (doesn't everyone) that has suited my group before but... I have one knew player who has problems when we change systems. He is usually semi-willing to learn the system but he doesn't know where to start. So I was looking for a few ideas on where to start him. Character creation though involved is only done once, inmost cases. I prefer it that way. I like my system after all I made it. My players like it except for this one. I wanted it to be easy on him. It means extra effort from me but I think the player is worth it.

Hopefully all will work out well.

Later and thanks again

 

[Dinkeldog]

I suppose my top 5 would be:

1. World Setting/Flavor
2. Character Generation
3. Combat System
4. Magic System
5. Skills System
   [/list=1]

1. 
   
   I'll take kengar's list, and move #1 to #5. One of the strongest points to D&D in all its incarnations has been the ease and freedom with which it moves from one campaign to another. Sure, the rules might change slightly between Greyhawk and Dark Sun, but not in any way that matters: it takes little to no time to teach someone that knows one and not the other the subtle rule variations.

 

[Dinkeldog]

Here's the really cool thing about this thread: Shallown cares enough about each of the players in his game that he'd consider changing things to keep them around. Very mature attitude, Sir. I salute you.

Thanks for everyone's help.

I was mainly asking becuase I have my own homebrew (doesn't everyone) that has suited my group before but... I have one knew player who has problems when we change systems. He is usually semi-willing to learn the system but he doesn't know where to start. So I was looking for a few ideas on where to start him. Character creation though involved is only done once, inmost cases. I prefer it that way. I like my system after all I made it. My players like it except for this one. I wanted it to be easy on him. It means extra effort from me but I think the player is worth it.

Hopefully all will work out well.

Later and thanks again

 

[Bendris Noulg]

I suppose my top 5 would be:

1. World Setting/Flavor
2. Character Generation
3. Combat System
4. Magic System
5. Skills System
   [/list=1]

1. 1, 2, 5, 3, 4.

 

[Shallown]

Thanks Dinkeldog I apreciate that, I'm all embarressed and proud at the same time.

Sometimes I don't think about it becuase we are all friends in my group. I mean gaming brought us together but we are still buds. So if I would go out of my way for a friend why not for a gaming buddy, plus this is a favor to me testing a new system.

Thanks again for the nice comment

later