Legacy Items - New DM has questions...

[Dragon-Rider]

I'm going to be DMing for the first time in the near future. Since I've never done this before, I want to keep things as simple as possible so it will be a Core Books (3.5e) only campaign. I also went out and bought some published adventures.

All of the adventures have Legacy Weapons or Armor for the PCs to find. I like the idea of the PCs finding unique items that grow in power as they do, but I think some of the requirements to access the Legacy powers are counter-intuitive. For example, there's a weapon that requires the wielder to sacrafice Hit Points, Attack Bonus and Saving Throws. Why would any front line fighter want to sacrifice his/her survivability and reduce their chances of hitting things for a few nifty but not very powerful abilities? Pretty much all of the Legacy Items are this way. They are specifically tailored to a particular class (some more than others), they have counter-intuitive sacrifices, and the actual enchantments on the items don't keep up with what the PCs should be capable of buying based on the wealth by character level chart in the DMG. As they are described in the books, I don't think any of the players will want to use them, I certainly wouldn't.

Can anyone give me some general guidelines for altering Legacy items to make them more attractive to PCs but not making them so powerful that they outshine the wielder's class? Have you guys created your own Legacy items? If so, what was your strategy for assigning rituals, sacrifices, enchantments and powers to your Legacy items to keep them balanced? What should I do if the PCs wish to sell the Legacy items? Do I base the price off of their non-Legacy stats? How do you suggest I adjust the price to account for the Omen power or the history behind the item?

Thanks for your time,
Dragon-Rider

 

[Dragon-Rider]

I realize now that I have posted this in the wrong forum. I apologize. Can someone tell me how to delete a previously posted thread so I can re-create it in the correct forum?

 

[justanobody]

Don't really know why this is the wrong forum, but someone may respond here in time, there are just some other big idsues that people may be focused on. You could try the report button and hope a mod will move it to the place you think it would better go, or give it a minute and a mod is likely to come in here and ask or move it themselves.

 

[Jhaelen]

Can anyone give me some general guidelines for altering Legacy items to make them more attractive to PCs but not making them so powerful that they outshine the wielder's class?

First I calculate the item's cost as if it had been created using the item creation rules for each level range (5-10), (11-16), and (17-20). Then I add or remove powers until the cost is in the range I consider optimal (I derived the numbers from investigating a few premade ones that I thought were desirable). Then I split the cost to get an xp cost (1xp = 25gp) and a gp cost for the accompanying ritual.

When the ritual has been performed, the character has to pay this cost. It's possible to gain a negative level this way if the xp loss would result in losing a level. It will automatically get away once the xp are again sufficient for the character's level.

There are no other costs or penalties.

Unfortunately, I'm away from my notes right now. But I think for a Least Legacy the cost averages about 10k gp and 2k xp.

Have you guys created your own Legacy items?

Yep. However I find it easier to start by modifying a premade one. Mostly I added or substituted maneuvers from the Tome of Battle. I also like to split benefits or reassign the levels at which powers are granted so that every level _something_ is gained.

If so, what was your strategy for assigning rituals, sacrifices, enchantments and powers to your Legacy items to keep them balanced?

see above.

What should I do if the PCs wish to sell the Legacy items? Do I base the price off of their non-Legacy stats? How do you suggest I adjust the price to account for the Omen power or the history behind the item?

Once a PC has completed one or more rituals, she's extremely unlikely to want to sell it. If she tried, she'd get no more than the standard price for an equivalent item without any legacy powers.

There's been one incidence when a PC wanted to replace his existing Legacy item with a new one they found. I'd probably have allowed the player to 'cash in' the expended gp cost in this case. It turned out to be of relevance since the PC in question died before it would have been time to make a decision...

 

[Jhaelen]

I realize now that I have posted this in the wrong forum. I apologize. Can someone tell me how to delete a previously posted thread so I can re-create it in the correct forum?

I guess, you'll have to PM one of the Admins to delete or move the thread or edit the threads title to say '[Please Delete]' or something like that.

 

[Dragon-Rider]

Jhaelen,

Thank you for your reply. I really like your idea of changing the sacrifices to be an xp cost instead of HP, AB, and save penalties.

Dragon-Rider

 

[Dragon-Rider]

Don't really know why this is the wrong forum, but someone may respond here in time, there are just some other big idsues that people may be focused on. You could try the report button and hope a mod will move it to the place you think it would better go, or give it a minute and a mod is likely to come in here and ask or move it themselves.

Actually, I misread the description of this forum. It actually says:

"Discussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. Rules discussion belongs in one the forums below."

However I read it as:

"Discussion of all RPGs and non-system-specific topics. DM/GM/player issues, settings, etc. and rules discussion belongs in one the forums below."

Maybe I did post this in the right forum afterall...

~Dragon-Rider

 

[Jhaelen]

I had a look at my notes, now:

For a Least Legacy the gp cost should be 18-24k.
For a Lesser Legacy the gp cost should be 48-72k.
For a Greater Legacy the gp cost should be 128-144k.

Typically, I translate a portion of the gp cost into an xp cost resulting in the loss of half the xp required for the level at which a Legacy can be gained first, i.e. 2k xp, 5k xp, and 8k xp, respectively.

My players love their Legacy Items. Some caveats when using them:
- players will start to complain until every PC has one.
- the legacy items will pretty much have to fit the characters' requirements.
- plan for opportunities to fulfill ritual requirements in your adventures.

I hope, you'll have as much fun using them in your game as we have! 'Weapons of Legacy' has been one of my favorite 3E supplements, especially since I'm also a player in an Earthdawn campaign and had been looking for ways to make D&D's magic items similarly interesting and useful as plot-hooks.