Legal, reasonable way to make permanency, well, permanent

[Artoomis]

I know that the Dweomerkeeper's Supernatural Spell ability can possible make permanency permanent (that is, non-dispellable) by using a Wish or Limited Wish to cast the Permanency.

This is a bit unreasonable as you can avoid the XP cost, because it becomes "Su," which means no XP cost, which is rather powerful.

Is there any other way to do this? My character is using Miracle to cast the Permanency, but is there a way to make it non-dispellable within the rules? I've done extensive analysis on why it should not be dispellable and how the XP costs are screwed up, but neither of those points is at issue here, only the question of whether it is possible to make it non-dispellable within the rules? Perhaps there is some other spell or feat that works kinda like the Dweomerkeeper's Supernatural Spell ability, only not quite so powerful?

I've already got my DM to allow my permanency to be undispellable, even without having to take a custom-designed feat for that (which I thought I'd have to do), so I'm not looking for house-rule suggestions either.

 

[Ferret]

I tried to make a spell called instancey, at level seven it doubled the cost and made the spells instant (permenant permenant). It was still deemed too powerful. Maybe if it only effected lower level spells?

 

[Darklone]

There's a Rituals&Relics spell that gets dispelled instead of another spell you "cover" with it... make that spell permanent

 

[Artoomis]

I tried to make a spell called instancey, at level seven it doubled the cost and made the spells instant (permenant permenant). It was still deemed too powerful. Maybe if it only effected lower level spells?

Too powerful?? Silly.

The XP costs are way too high already for a non-permanent effect. You could make items for the same cost (more or less - that's another topic), and items are rarely lost or broken.

To make it more equivalent, a feat is all you'd need.

Either that, or teh XP costs should be a lot less, beacsue they are dispellable.

Anyway, that's all house rules stuff, and I wanted to stick within teh rules - though ALL WotC splatbooks are fair game.

 

[RigaMortus]

I tried to make a spell called instancey, at level seven it doubled the cost and made the spells instant (permenant permenant). It was still deemed too powerful. Maybe if it only effected lower level spells?

Even with that, Break Enchantment could get rid of it...

 

[Artoomis]

Even with that, Break Enchantment could get rid of it...

Maybe, matbe not.

A small number of spells (arcane mark, limited wish, permanency, prestidigitation, and wish) are universal, belonging to no school.

Break Enchantment has no effect on"universal" spells. Hmmm..... This could be the key.

Actually, I like making permanent spells to be more like items that can be suppressed with Dispell Magic.

That's all House Rules, though, unless there is some obscure combination that might do this. If you can make Permamancy "Instantaneous," then the spell is truly permanent. Unfortunately, that would mean the effect that lingered was non-magical, which makes no sense.

Drat. There ought to be a way to do this.

 

[AuraSeer]

Drat. There ought to be a way to do this.

Simple. Buy a slotless magic item, and carry it under your cloak so it can't be targeted by a dispel.

 

[welby]

Artoomis, I agree with everything you're saying about permancy. In my last campaign, we made up some house rule about it being suppressed, with some modifiers based on the caster level difference of who casts the dispel. It was a great system, until the session after I had cast permanency a few times, my lame DM had a balor cast a targetted greater dispel at me (I was level 12!). I never did get my spells back before I quit playing with that DM.

The moral? Be careful about suppression rules for permanency. Just houserule that they're always on, or suppressed for a flat 24 hours.

 

[Herpes Cineplex]

I've seen two different GMs handle it two different ways.

The first ruled that permanency turned your body into something akin to a magical item (seeing as you spent xp to instill a permanent magical effect in it), and therefore dispel magic just suppressed the spell as it would a magic item.

The second ruled that permanency could be dispelled, but upon dispelling the xp spent to make a spell permanent would then be immediately returned to the caster; I think she was going with a "you're using your personal power/xp to maintain this spell indefinitely, so if you're not maintaining it, that power/xp goes back to you" rationale for it.

...neither are by the rules-as-written, of course, but no one we played with minded, because it was better than the rules as written. Wizards weren't kicking themselves for basically throwing away thousands of experience points, and it still allowed people to use dispel magic to get rid of or suppress permanent spells.

--
i think in a serious game, i'd use the latter interpretation; for fun, i'd use the first
ryan

 

[welby]

So, with a wand of dispel and enough permanent effects, you could level yourself up

Drat, 500 xp until the next level, so close.
*casts dispel on self*
I mean 500 xp over my next level, yay!