D&D 5E Legendary issues

[devincutler]

I get the game play reason for Legendary Actions in 5e. I really do. It is to allow a solo creature to take on a party of PCs.

But one of the things I most despised about 4e was how the world was meant to explain the game mechanics rather than the game mechanics explaining the world.

Thankfully, most of that philosophy was dropped from 5e...but it remains strong in Legendary Actions.

Take a solar (Angel). It has a legendary action wherein it can teleport 120 ft to a spot it can see. But apparently it can only do this in battle? Does it have the ability to teleport outside of combat? If not...why not?

I have looked at some other enworld threads on this issue and they basically come down to "well, the creature fights harder with more foes."

Ok, I might be able to buy that except MOST LAs involve unique actions that cannot be taken otherwise. And even then, by definition a legendary creature can always take 1 LA per turn in combat. But it just seems to me that an ability like teleport has enough noncombat uses that it shouldn't be relegated to a LA.

And am I understanding LAs incorrectly? It says they can be taken at the end of ANY creature's turn. Does that mean allies as well? So the more allies a legendary creature has in a fight the more things it can do? Does this seem right?

 

[Celtavian]

The nice thing about 5E is you can do what you want and it is encouraged. I allow the solar to teleport out of combat. The combat stats are for combat. What you want a creature to be able to do out of combat is up to you. Write it up as you want it and make it happen.

Yes. It means allies as well. Maximum number of legendary actions I've seen is three. That still provides a hardcap to the number of Legendary Actions regardless of number of allies.

 

[Shiroiken]

Take a solar (Angel). It has a legendary action wherein it can teleport 120 ft to a spot it can see. But apparently it can only do this in battle? Does it have the ability to teleport outside of combat? If not...why not?

I agree. My solution would be to allow them to teleport as a bonus action outside of combat.

I have looked at some other enworld threads on this issue and they basically come down to "well, the creature fights harder with more foes."

Ok, I might be able to buy that except MOST LAs involve unique actions that cannot be taken otherwise. And even then, by definition a legendary creature can always take 1 LA per turn in combat. But it just seems to me that an ability like teleport has enough noncombat uses that it shouldn't be relegated to a LA.

And am I understanding LAs incorrectly? It says they can be taken at the end of ANY creature's turn. Does that mean allies as well? So the more allies a legendary creature has in a fight the more things it can do? Does this seem right?

It's a bit goofy, but yes. I think of it similar to the way extra attacks were handled in AD&D - you could do more in a round than others, but it took longer, allowing others to act in between. The only thing I see as potential problem would be too few creatures in a combat not allowing the full use of Legendary Actions (in which I would allow the creature to use the remainder before the start of it's turn).

 

[JohnLynch]

I really like legendary and lair actions. I would definitely allow legendary actions to be taken outside of combat (actions are really only quantified as such in combat, IMO). Are there any rules that say legendary actions can't be taken outside of combat?

 

[Uchawi]

The nice thing with any edition is modify the monster as you see fit. But what I do not like about legendary actions is an all or nothing state. It would be nice to see a progression from normal monsters, hard monsters, elite monsters, legendary monsters and unique. Then you would start to see a progression in ability. But 5E does not offer that detail.

 

[garnuk]

Is there a rule that actions can't be taken outside of combat? I never noticed it.

 

[Li Shenron]

Take a solar (Angel). It has a legendary action wherein it can teleport 120 ft to a spot it can see. But apparently it can only do this in battle? Does it have the ability to teleport outside of combat? If not...why not?

Of course it can do it out of combat too!

Whatever you can do in combat, you can do anytime*, you just don't need to bother tracking the 'economy of actions', because that's only needed in combat.

*unless you have an ability that specifically says 'this is something you can only do in combat'

A similar case is a someone casting a spell that takes a bonus action or a reaction, for example a Wizard can freely cast Feather Fall outside of combat. When not in combat, who cares what is the action required? Unless your task takes a long time (minutes, hours...) you normally don't need to worry.

And am I understanding LAs incorrectly? It says they can be taken at the end of ANY creature's turn. Does that mean allies as well?

Yes.

So the more allies a legendary creature has in a fight the more things it can do?

No, because the legendary creature is still limited by a max number of legendary actions per round (usually 3).

Eventually the only illogical case is when the legendary creature's opponents are less than 3, and so it might not be able to use them all. But its opponents are usually the PCs, so nobody will complain

 

[Dausuul]

And am I understanding LAs incorrectly? It says they can be taken at the end of ANY creature's turn. Does that mean allies as well? So the more allies a legendary creature has in a fight the more things it can do? Does this seem right?

This is something that bugs quite a few people. I house-rule that a legendary creature always gets its full complement of legendary actions; if there are not enough other creatures around, then it takes the leftover actions right before the start of its turn.

 

[dave2008]

This is something that bugs quite a few people. I house-rule that a legendary creature always gets its full complement of legendary actions; if there are not enough other creatures around, then it takes the leftover actions right before the start of its turn.

That is what I do, except I allow them to be taken at the end of the round. if they are not used up.

 

[Psikerlord#]

I like the legendary rules a lot. They are a big step up from 4e solos which just didn't work at all.