D&D 5E Legendary, Lair, and BOSS Actions

[SilverfireSage]

I too don't see the necessity of giving a lesser big bad that kind of thing. For me, the interesting thing about bosses isn't really what they are, but where they are and who they have with them. That seems to be the crux of 5e is making monsters simple and easy to run so that you can vary their actions more without thinking about what extra abilities they have.

 

[Nebulous]

I was also thinking of giving them the luck feat. I truly despise auto saves. I understand why they're there (because 5e reintroduced the auto-hit-save-or-be-incapacitated-for-the-full-fight mechanic from 3e and otherwise the PCs can end a boss fight with a single spell) but that doesn't mean I like the way the designers addressed it. Spellcasters quickly become trivialized against those creatures because they already have a very high chance of making their saves and they just use their autosave in the event they actually fail against anything significant.

I don't despise them -- yet -- but i can see how it could easily devolve into a gimmick mechanic that induces eye rolling and hatred. As CM said, making the Legendary Resistance as part of one of the Legendary actions might help. And the Lucky feat is a good idea too.

Anyway, with the Boss Actions, i could do away with autosave completely, i was more interested in giving them a few choice special abilities.

 

[MoutonRustique]

Auto-saves also have the "fun" possibility of being a point of contention when the DM "waits for a big gun".

Often DMs will know a good deal about PC capabilities. It can be quite tempting to wait for those big guns...

 

[Nebulous]

Auto-saves also have the "fun" possibility of being a point of contention when the DM "waits for a big gun".

Often DMs will know a good deal about PC capabilities. It can be quite tempting to wait for those big guns...

And that's also why a spellcaster PC might feel targeted. He *knows* his Disintegrate spell is getting shafted.

I just a had a really interesting thought:

What if there was an explainable, in-game way to NEGATE the auto-saves? One at a time?

 

[MonsterEnvy]

It was pointed out that an Orc with the Spear of Gruumsh would be a legendary opponent. I am guessing there will be legendary rules in the DMG.

 

[Mistwell]

Legendary resistance is just bad, not sure why anyone would want to see more of if.

If effect causing things like spells are just shrugged off, the fight comes down to a purely hit points, and effectively makes these legendary creatures sacks of hit points.

Ultimately 99% of all creatures are that. A spell is just another way to decrease their hit points, either directly, or indirectly by disabling them so someone else can decrease their hit points.

 

[Dausuul]

All good points. I know that as a DM in 4e, i absolutely hated when a player would negate a roll. "No, that doesn't happen. I have such and such power." Here in 5e, we have legendary actions essentially doing the same thing, but more rarely. I haven't used them in play yet, but if i was a player and felt like i was being clever and pulling out the big guns, it would be frustrating for the DM to say, without even rolling a die, "No, the monster saves. Sorry. Oh, and now it gets to attack you directly too."

As a DM, i think it is awesome! But that's because we have to think in survival strategies of the monsters who are most likely going to die.

To me, the key is to make sure players know that legendary monsters exist and what Legendary means (extra actions, autosaves). It feels a lot less arbitrary and spiteful when you know in advance that this is a thing some monsters can do. Then you can plan around it--as Joe Liker suggested, lead off with low- to mid-level debuffs, and force the monster to choose between accepting a debuff and potentially opening itself up to a save-or-die later on.

 

[aramis erak]

I just a had a really interesting thought:

What if there was an explainable, in-game way to NEGATE the auto-saves? One at a time?

Make them non-optional. The first three saves succeed, period. Save #4... bombad be rollin'...

 

[Paraxis]

Make them non-optional. The first three saves succeed, period. Save #4... bombad be rollin'...

Legendary resistance works after the save has already failed.

So boss creature attempts to make save, a few of them even have magic resistance so always do so with advantage, and most of them have great ability scores, if the boss fails a save, then he can decide to spend one of his legendary resistances.

 

[Uchawi]

The trick is having a progression for monster ability so legendary actions do not appear to be arbitrary actions just to keep the monster alive a couple more rounds. And 5E is too simple at this point, to offer any layers of complexity if you always want PCs to have a decent change to hit, land a spell, etc. due to bounded accuracy. It becomes an all or nothing thing, versus shades of grey.