Legends of Excalibur: Arthurian Adventures
- Thread starter PosterBoy
- Start date
Cheiromancer
Adventurer
A few questions and a comment:
Q1: Do you prefer feedback and discussion to occur here, or at the Yahoo group you've set up?
Q2: For the purpose of regaining spell points, how near is "near"? For instance, if a druid is 5 miles away from a major henge, does that count as near?
A comment: The Knight and the Yeoman seem too strong in comparison with the Fighter. And some of the other classes in the book, too (particularly the robber baron, which seems to me to be very well balanced with the PHB classes). I would be strongly tempted to house rule them by giving them 3/4 BAB progression, but increase the combat bonus (Mounted Combat for Knights, Archery for Yeomen) by +1.
The bonuses for the preferred style of attacking would be +2 at 1st level, +3 at 4th level, +4 at 8th level, etc.
On a level by level basis Knight would enjoy the following attack bonuses (BAB + Mounted Combat if applicable):
Level....Fighter.......Knight (Mounted)........(Unmounted)
1.........+1.......................+2..................+0
2.........+2.......................+3..................+1
3.........+3.......................+4..................+2
4.........+4.......................+6..................+3
5.........+5.......................+6..................+3
6.........+6/+1..................+7..................+4
7.........+7/+2..................+8..................+5
8.........+8/+3..................+10/+5............+6/+1
9.........+9/+4..................+10/+5............+6/+1
10........+10/+5................+11/+6............+7/+2
11........+11/+6/+1...........+12/+7............+8/+3
12........+12/+7/+2...........+14/+9............+9/+4
13........+13/+8/+3...........+14/+9............+9/+4
14........+14/+9/+4...........+15/+10..........+10/+5
15........+15/+10/+5.........+16/+11/+6......+11/+6/+1
16........+16/+11/+6/+1....+18/+13/+8......+12/+7/+2
17........+17/+12/+7/+2....+18/+13/+8......+12/+7/+2
18........+18/+13/+8/+3....+19/+14/+9......+13/+8/3
19........+19/+14/+9/+4....+20/+15/+10....+14/+9/4
20........+20/+15/+10/+5..+22/+17/+12....+15/+10/5
In their preferred form of attack they would always be better than a fighter of the same level (except for the last iterative attack, which I don't think is terribly significant).
The spectral knights would have to be adjusted a little, however; perhaps reduce good BAB (as fighter) to medium BAB (as rogue), and medium BAB to poor BAB (as wizard).
Q1: Do you prefer feedback and discussion to occur here, or at the Yahoo group you've set up?
Q2: For the purpose of regaining spell points, how near is "near"? For instance, if a druid is 5 miles away from a major henge, does that count as near?
A comment: The Knight and the Yeoman seem too strong in comparison with the Fighter. And some of the other classes in the book, too (particularly the robber baron, which seems to me to be very well balanced with the PHB classes). I would be strongly tempted to house rule them by giving them 3/4 BAB progression, but increase the combat bonus (Mounted Combat for Knights, Archery for Yeomen) by +1.
The bonuses for the preferred style of attacking would be +2 at 1st level, +3 at 4th level, +4 at 8th level, etc.
On a level by level basis Knight would enjoy the following attack bonuses (BAB + Mounted Combat if applicable):
Level....Fighter.......Knight (Mounted)........(Unmounted)
1.........+1.......................+2..................+0
2.........+2.......................+3..................+1
3.........+3.......................+4..................+2
4.........+4.......................+6..................+3
5.........+5.......................+6..................+3
6.........+6/+1..................+7..................+4
7.........+7/+2..................+8..................+5
8.........+8/+3..................+10/+5............+6/+1
9.........+9/+4..................+10/+5............+6/+1
10........+10/+5................+11/+6............+7/+2
11........+11/+6/+1...........+12/+7............+8/+3
12........+12/+7/+2...........+14/+9............+9/+4
13........+13/+8/+3...........+14/+9............+9/+4
14........+14/+9/+4...........+15/+10..........+10/+5
15........+15/+10/+5.........+16/+11/+6......+11/+6/+1
16........+16/+11/+6/+1....+18/+13/+8......+12/+7/+2
17........+17/+12/+7/+2....+18/+13/+8......+12/+7/+2
18........+18/+13/+8/+3....+19/+14/+9......+13/+8/3
19........+19/+14/+9/+4....+20/+15/+10....+14/+9/4
20........+20/+15/+10/+5..+22/+17/+12....+15/+10/5
In their preferred form of attack they would always be better than a fighter of the same level (except for the last iterative attack, which I don't think is terribly significant).
The spectral knights would have to be adjusted a little, however; perhaps reduce good BAB (as fighter) to medium BAB (as rogue), and medium BAB to poor BAB (as wizard).
Vigilance
Explorer
Cheiromancer said:
Either is fine with me. You will definitely get some viewpoints other than mine if you leave a comment to the yahoo group, you are more likely to only get me
Yes it does. I generally give each henge a range (for lack of a better term) about about 3 miles per ley line running into the henge. Expect to see some smaller scale maps in the campaign guide giving you the locations of more minor henges as well.
I get a lot of feedback on those two classes, and it falls into two categories- too powerful, and too specialized.
Both the knight and yeoman are more powerful than the fighter in their element. However, take the knight off his horse, or the yeoman where his enemies are closer to him than he'd like (which means a dungeon for both classes), and they don't look nearly as overpowering.
In playtest campaigns where a lot of dungeon crawling is going on, I have even been told the classes are not powerful *enough*.
Basically, the fighter's edge, by design, is his versatility. The yeoman suffers from this problem a little less, but, in my opinion, a knight on foot is much less powerful than a fighter. All of his bonus feats, and most of his class abilities, are useless.
However, on horseback, the knight is more powerful than the fighter, a lot more powerful if the fighter has not taken several mounted combat feats.
So the fighter is more versatile because he gets to pick his feats, and he also gets weapon specialization, with the knight does not. Also keep in mind the fighter gains because he does not have to worry about the code of chivalry (or nobility at all).
A medium BAB for the knight and yeoman were considered... but this basically makes the knight on power level of the warrior NPC class when he is dismounted. As it is, the knight is still less powerful than a fighter dismounted, the only thing he doesnt lose is his BAB and his HD.
Yeoman is thus more of a problem imo, and might be reduced to a medium BAB in the final revision of the KHB as you suggest, since his abilities work better indoors (not as well, but better).
Thanks for the feedback, and feel free to drop by the yahoo group and say hi anytime
Chuck
Cheiromancer
Adventurer
Well, I think a fighter, one who has chosen mounted combat feats with his fighter feats, is the appropriate standard against which a knight should be compared. And if the knight does better on horseback than a fighter who has specialized in mounted combat, then he should do worse on the ground against that same fighter.
On the ground the Knight will have the advantage of higher hit dice; about equal to Improved Toughness, I think. Most of the other advantages of a Knight are kinda subtle; armor tolerance when skills are in play, nobility when having to intimidate someone (or when resisting a fear effect), dispense justice when solving problems in a village.
But if the Knight has the same BAB as the fighter, then he has a definite advantage over him on the ground as well as in the saddle. And that isn't right.
It is just the same as for the yeoman. A yeoman beats a fighter who has invested his bonus feats into archery related feats. So he should do more poorly against that archer-fighter while off the archery range.
Right?
On the ground the Knight will have the advantage of higher hit dice; about equal to Improved Toughness, I think. Most of the other advantages of a Knight are kinda subtle; armor tolerance when skills are in play, nobility when having to intimidate someone (or when resisting a fear effect), dispense justice when solving problems in a village.
But if the Knight has the same BAB as the fighter, then he has a definite advantage over him on the ground as well as in the saddle. And that isn't right.
It is just the same as for the yeoman. A yeoman beats a fighter who has invested his bonus feats into archery related feats. So he should do more poorly against that archer-fighter while off the archery range.
Right?
PosterBoy
First Post
Cheiromancer said:
I think the yahoo group is a better place to realy discuss these things (not that Chuck won't answer questions here). But I think you'll get more feedback from other players and sometimes I don't check these boards everyday.
So maybe repost these questions there if you don't mind.
beverson
First Post
PosterBoy said:
Chris, have you thought at all about tagging your pdf's in some way with
the version number? I downloaded the update, but looking back on it I can't
really tell if it's the updated version or not (well, with the increased page count
it's easier). And it's much more difficult with an older product that I may not
have looked at in a while - such as Blood and Space. I was going to download
the 1.1 version, but couldn't figure out if I already had 1.1 or not...
just wondering.
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