D&D 5E Let’s Read Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse.

Tazawa

Explorer
You missed one of the things that makes Hutijin really deadly. Infernal Despair gives any non-devil within 30 feet disadvantage on saving throws. His save DC is 22, so this is a threat even to PCs proficient in the save.

Conveniently, his fear and lightning effects target everyone in 30 feet. And target different saves.
 

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Reynard

Legend

Hydroloth (MToF)​


The Hydroloths signature power, Steal Memory, is a doozy. The target must make an INT save (The most popular Dump Stat), or else they lose all of their proficiencies, can't cast spells, and have their INT and CHA set to 5 for 24 hours. The saving throw against this effect is once per day. Nasty stuff. Of course, if you are going to use the campaign idea above, it’s best to handwave the power a bit to fit the story. It could even be a plot point: Whatever kind of magic prevents the total loss of memories, also prevents them from regaining all of them.
First: isn't CHA the most popular dump stat?

Second, it seems like anyone who would care about and being truly adversely affected by losing INT would probably have it as a proficient save.
 


CHA is pretty popular from my memory. Causes it guides lots of social interaction rules.
in 5e in my experience Int and Str are the go to dump stats... if you aren't using them to make DCs or Attacks you could have an 8 in each (or 10 if you want to play as average instead of weak/below average...but I have been told a lot of people don't RP stats)

Cha is the most common spell attack/save modifier (warlock/sorcerer/bard/plaided) and if you are not using it for that it is all the social skills... so it is on average the HIGHEST stat in our games.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Given the fact that the books these monsters originally appeared in have just been retired in DDB, I think it fair to say WorC doesn't consider them separate monsters.
Mechanically, they are equivalent. For brand identity, this is the standard moving forward. Compatible rules, small shifts of rules modules.
 

Jer

Legend
Supporter
First: isn't CHA the most popular dump stat?
Not in 5e in my experience. Too many classes that rely on it and also every social skill relies on it - and 5e games that I've run and played in both make much heavier use of social skill rolls than we did in previous editions.

in 5e in my experience Int and Str are the go to dump stats... if you aren't using them to make DCs or Attacks you could have an 8 in each (or 10 if you want to play as average instead of weak/below average...but I have been told a lot of people don't RP stats)
It's funny, and I hadn't thought of it before, but that's absolutely true. Anyone looking for a dump stat who isn't playing a Fighter or a Barbarian is dumping Strength in our games. Huh - I hadn't thought of that particular wrinkle in how 5e plays differently from earlier editions.
 



in 5e in my experience Int and Str are the go to dump stats... if you aren't using them to make DCs or Attacks you could have an 8 in each (or 10 if you want to play as average instead of weak/below average...but I have been told a lot of people don't RP stats)

Cha is the most common spell attack/save modifier (warlock/sorcerer/bard/plaided) and if you are not using it for that it is all the social skills... so it is on average the HIGHEST stat in our games.
This exactly matches what I've seen. Unless STR or INT is their primary, one of them will be the dump-stat, or both, depending on whether using fixed-array or point buy, usually. And there are just loads of PCs with high CHA because Paladins, Warlocks, and Bards are all extremely well-implemented in 5E, and Sorcerers are, in my experience, more popular than Wizards.
 

Reynard

Legend
It's funny, and I hadn't thought of it before, but that's absolutely true. Anyone looking for a dump stat who isn't playing a Fighter or a Barbarian is dumping Strength in our games. Huh - I hadn't thought of that particular wrinkle in how 5e plays differently from earlier editions.
Probably because no one can be bothered with encumbrance.
 

Yes, that's why they are making the changes, to increase the appeal of the brand identity.
Yup. I don't get why anyone would think WotC would be making these changes without researching them and determining their popularity. I do think WotC maybe trusts their own surveys a little less than they used to, because I suspect the demographics of the people who fill out the surveys do not match well with the demographics WotC is seeing with more serious/aggressive market research (probably older, male-er and pale-er). Of course the surveys still offer value because they give some pretty in-depth comments on things. I mean I agree with Micah that they may go overboard, but so far that has yet to really bite them in the butt except with the incredibly misguided early marketing of and decision-making about 4E, but that looked like they just took their eye off the ball more than anything else.
 

Jer

Legend
Supporter
Probably because no one can be bothered with encumbrance.
I mean, nobody carries much of anything in our games so even if we did it wouldn't matter. The only folks who would need to really worry about it because they wear heavy armor are the ones who aren't dumping Strength.
 

Reynard

Legend
I mean, nobody carries much of anything in our games so even if we did it wouldn't matter. The only folks who would need to really worry about it because they wear heavy armor are the ones who aren't dumping Strength.
Probably because no one cares about food, camping supplies, dungeon exploration tools, etc...
 

Yes, that's why they are making the changes, to increase the appeal of the brand identity.
I hope they're right that it'll do that.

Actually, I kinda don't hope that. I understand what they're doing and why, but I strongly disagree the game will be in any way better for it.
 


Leatherhead

Possibly a Idiot.
You missed one of the things that makes Hutijin really deadly. Infernal Despair gives any non-devil within 30 feet disadvantage on saving throws. His save DC is 22, so this is a threat even to PCs proficient in the save.
True.

Second, it seems like anyone who would care about and being truly adversely affected by losing INT would probably have it as a proficient save.
Debuffing INT while losing proficiency in INT saves also makes the subsequent saving throws to end the effect harder, seeing as how your new INT save is -3.
 

Jer

Legend
Supporter
Probably because no one cares about food, camping supplies, dungeon exploration tools, etc...
They're adventurers, not Boy Scouts. How much camping supplies do they really need? They're either going to sleep under the stars, sleep in a cave behind a barricaded door, or find an inn for the night.

With an 8 Strength you can carry 120 pounds of weight. IIRC an Explorer's pack is around 60 lbs of weight. Add on light armor and weapons and you end up with a number that makes encumbrance IMO not worth tracking unless I'm doing an old school dungeon crawl where I'm going to give out XP based on treasure pulled out of the dungeon and want the players to have to make some hard choices.
 

With an 8 Strength you can carry 120 pounds of weight.
when I go camping for the weekend I don't take weapons or armor but I also don't get close to 120lbs... maybe between 3 of us we bring that much stuff... and I can't hunt or forage for food, so that weight includes the food
 

Reynard

Legend
when I go camping for the weekend I don't take weapons or armor but I also don't get close to 120lbs... maybe between 3 of us we bring that much stuff... and I can't hunt or forage for food, so that weight includes the food
The idea that 120 lbs is a trivial amount of weight (ie no penalties) for someone with a below average strength to carry is absolutely laughable.
 


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