D&D 5E Let’s Read Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse.

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Yup. I don't get why anyone would think WotC would be making these changes without researching them and determining their popularity. I do think WotC maybe trusts their own surveys a little less than they used to, because I suspect the demographics of the people who fill out the surveys do not match well with the demographics WotC is seeing with more serious/aggressive market research (probably older, male-er and pale-er). Of course the surveys still offer value because they give some pretty in-depth comments on things. I mean I agree with Micah that they may go overboard, but so far that has yet to really bite them in the butt except with the incredibly misguided early marketing of and decision-making about 4E, but that looked like they just took their eye off the ball more than anything else.
Yeah, I'm sure they are doing broad market research to find out how the general populace reacts to things now.
 

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The idea that 120 lbs is a trivial amount of weight (ie no penalties) for someone with a below average strength to carry is absolutely laughable.
in the real world i am disabled (not a major way but enough to get the license plate for the closer spot), and I have been told not to carry more then 25-30lbs of weight any amount of distance and not to even try to lift 50lbs. So I have given A LOT of thought to the weight thing in d&D and while I was never in perfect weight lifter or military shape, even in what I considered good shape I wasn't carrying around 100lbs for any length of time if it wasn't life or death.

I have budies and family that are cops and military. None of them want to carry much more then 100lbs around for a day (and I have been told in Afghanistan they were pretty close to that 120lbs in gear) because after an hour or so even if you CAN push on you are tired achy and not in real fighting shape.
 

Reynard

Legend
in the real world i am disabled (not a major way but enough to get the license plate for the closer spot), and I have been told not to carry more then 25-30lbs of weight any amount of distance and not to even try to lift 50lbs. So I have given A LOT of thought to the weight thing in d&D and while I was never in perfect weight lifter or military shape, even in what I considered good shape I wasn't carrying around 100lbs for any length of time if it wasn't life or death.

I have budies and family that are cops and military. None of them want to carry much more then 100lbs around for a day (and I have been told in Afghanistan they were pretty close to that 120lbs in gear) because after an hour or so even if you CAN push on you are tired achy and not in real fighting shape.
It was a long time ago, but I was once a US Army infantryman and 60 pounds of gear is PLENTY.
 

Jer

Legend
Supporter
So I have given A LOT of thought to the weight thing in d&D and while I was never in perfect weight lifter or military shape, even in what I considered good shape I wasn't carrying around 100lbs for any length of time if it wasn't life or death.
And to be fair the weights in the Player's Handbook for various pieces of equipment are all nonsense too. A tinderbox weighs a pound. A map case weighs a pound. 50 blowgun needles weigh a pound. A yew wand weighs ... a pound.

It's almost as if the 5e encumbrance rules were put into the game because they figured people expected to have them there and not because the developers cared about them or thought they were at all important to the game.
 

And to be fair the weights in the Player's Handbook for various pieces of equipment are all nonsense too. A tinderbox weighs a pound. A map case weighs a pound. 50 blowgun needles weigh a pound. A yew wand weighs ... a pound.

It's almost as if the 5e encumbrance rules were put into the game because they figured people expected to have them there and not because the developers cared about them or thought they were at all important to the game.
Yeah, the DM has to do a lot of heavy lifting to make encumbrance work. ☺
 

Remathilis

Legend
And to be fair the weights in the Player's Handbook for various pieces of equipment are all nonsense too. A tinderbox weighs a pound. A map case weighs a pound. 50 blowgun needles weigh a pound. A yew wand weighs ... a pound.

It's almost as if the 5e encumbrance rules were put into the game because they figured people expected to have them there and not because the developers cared about them or thought they were at all important to the game.
This is the point where I remind people the weight of gear was supposed to take into account bulk, which is why things that were bulky or hard to pack weighed more than their actual rw counterparts.

At least, that was the rationale in AD&D. I'm sure the only reason things remain that way is that weights were copied from edition to edition.
 

Jer

Legend
Supporter
At least, that was the rationale in AD&D. I'm sure the only reason things remain that way is that weights were copied from edition to edition.
Weren't weights in AD&D in coins rather than pounds?

Wait my memory is coming back to me - that was one of the changes between 1e and 2e AD&D. 1e was in coins, 2e used lbs.
 

Leatherhead

Possibly a Idiot.

Juiblex (MToF)​


Oozes are a fun time D&D monster. While at first glance they fall into the trap of being slow-ground-bound melee monsters, that isn’t quite the case. Most of them have either an advanced movement option (normally spider climb), or simply take up all the encounter space available (like the famous Gelatinous Cube). Whichever way they are encountered, all oozes have a gimmick related to their unique physiology, which more solid creatures can’t pull off without the help of magic. The Demonic Lord of Oozes, Juiblex is no exception to these guidelines, despite being a demon himself. In fact, I wonder why he didn’t also get the ooze tag appended to his creature type.

When talking about a Demon Lord, I like to start off with their cultists, which are represented as a sort of template in this book. And I do love creature templates. While it may be hard to imagine who exactly would worship an uncaring pile of slime, I am sure that the internet can find people who are into that kind of thing. Alternatively, now that Spelljammer is confirmed, the Plasmoids seem popular enough. In any case, Cultists of Juiblex have the most impressive powers in this book so far. With rank and file cultists being able to squeeze through 1’ gaps as if they were a liquid, and the particularly devoted gaining an innate resistance to non-magical weapon attacks.

Like all good slimes, Juiblex is at his best when inside of his lair, the Slime Pits of the Abyss. Which he shares with fellow Demon Lord Zuggtmoy, the Queen of Fungi. It would be quite the epic brawl if you had the PCs fighting both of them at the same time, so consider it if you ever plan on using one or the other. Zuggtomoy in particular could really use the help. His lair actions are all spreading some kind of slime around, either the Green Slime hazard from the DMG, a Sticky Slime that restrains, and a Slippery Slime that can be used to slide people around into other traps. These slime patches work wonderfully together, and are possibly the best example of lair actions in this book so far. While the slimes can be burned off, anyone coated in the slime is going to take a significant amount of damage for the trouble, which most parties won’t think to guard themselves against, given that Juiblex himself deals primarily acid damage.

Juiblex himself is a bit of a brute controller. His primary multiattack allows for three ranged or melee attacks, and he has a special action that can be used to dissolve armor. He has a small passive AoE that poisons creatures near him. His most devastating attack is his Corrupting Touch legendary action, which automatically poisons the target should it land, and also automatically poisons anyone within 10’ of that target, no saving throw required. Speaking of saving throws, while Juiblex isn’t a particularly strong spellcaster, Contagion is a really strong spell. It can be used to nullify acid and poison damage resistance, blind someone, or Inflict someone with Slimy Doom. Which I imagine is his go-to use of the spell.

In the changeover, Jubilex lost his madness table, his (totally redundant) Magical Weapons ability, as well as the spells Acid Splash and Blight. In return, he was given a climb speed, acid damage immunity, and his Acid Lash attack was given ranged coverage.
 

Leatherhead

Possibly a Idiot.

Ki-rin (VGtM)​


The Ki-rin is a celestial creature of goodness and nobility that looks like the cross between a golden dragon and a unicorn. While they do look cool, I have to wonder why in the heck one would associate with the Aggressively Neutral Mordenkainen on the cover of this book. They are even the cover creature for the special edition, so let's see what makes them great enough to represent D&D monsters as a whole.

Ki-rin are warriors for goodness who like the worshiping of gods related to courage, loyalty, selflessness, and truth. Which is kind of ironic seeing as how they like to hang out in opulent lairs far above everyone in the clouds. At least the lair doubles as a school of sorts, so there is some reason behind the wealth. While in their lair, the Ki-rin have some of the weakest lair actions available. None of them take effect until an entire minute has passed, so if you are fighting one you aren’t ever going to see them in action. Fortunately, the Ki-rin also spend a lot of their time traveling about, smiting evil-doers. So we can comfortably ignore the lair.

In combat the Ki-rin has a multiattack, where it can either use its horn and hooves, or sacred fire for ranged attacking. While they do have spellcasting, the Ki-rin cannot cast them as a legendary action or as part of their multiattack, so consider which ones to use wisely. The most useful spells are perhaps Banishment, for some hard control, followed by Plane Shift, to escape a fight should the situation turn dire. Their legendary actions allow them to attack or disengage around the battlefield, not very exciting I must say.

The Ki-rin also has a boatload of healing spells, but they are not very good at healing HP damage, due to the fact that they don’t have leveled spell slots. They are, however, very good at removing status effects, should your party need to break a curse or disease.

Overall, I have to say that the Ki-rin is an underwhelming monster. While it technically does all the things it says it can do, it does them in a subdued fashion. The creature doesn’t have a proper burst damage smite, it doesn’t heal very well, it can’t raise the dead unless it saw the creature die. It can’t even make useful weapons for the players to keep on their quest to fight evil. Its best use, perhaps, is as a support mount for some other creature.

In the changeover, the Ki-rin lost its Cleric spellcasting (and most of their higher level spells), which is the thing that actually made it threatening in combat to begin with: The ability to force multiply any of its minions. It gained truesight (to make up for the loss of the spell) the Sacred Fire attack (to make up for the loss of the Sacred Flame Cantrip), and had its horn attack buffed a bit.
 

Remathilis

Legend

Ki-rin (VGtM)​


The Ki-rin is a celestial creature of goodness and nobility that looks like the cross between a golden dragon and a unicorn. While they do look cool, I have to wonder why in the heck one would associate with the Aggressively Neutral Mordenkainen on the cover of this book. They are even the cover creature for the special edition, so let's see what makes them great enough to represent D&D monsters as a whole.

Ki-rin are warriors for goodness who like the worshiping of gods related to courage, loyalty, selflessness, and truth. Which is kind of ironic seeing as how they like to hang out in opulent lairs far above everyone in the clouds. At least the lair doubles as a school of sorts, so there is some reason behind the wealth. While in their lair, the Ki-rin have some of the weakest lair actions available. None of them take effect until an entire minute has passed, so if you are fighting one you aren’t ever going to see them in action. Fortunately, the Ki-rin also spend a lot of their time traveling about, smiting evil-doers. So we can comfortably ignore the lair.

In combat the Ki-rin has a multiattack, where it can either use its horn and hooves, or sacred fire for ranged attacking. While they do have spellcasting, the Ki-rin cannot cast them as a legendary action or as part of their multiattack, so consider which ones to use wisely. The most useful spells are perhaps Banishment, for some hard control, followed by Plane Shift, to escape a fight should the situation turn dire. Their legendary actions allow them to attack or disengage around the battlefield, not very exciting I must say.

The Ki-rin also has a boatload of healing spells, but they are not very good at healing HP damage, due to the fact that they don’t have leveled spell slots. They are, however, very good at removing status effects, should your party need to break a curse or disease.

Overall, I have to say that the Ki-rin is an underwhelming monster. While it technically does all the things it says it can do, it does them in a subdued fashion. The creature doesn’t have a proper burst damage smite, it doesn’t heal very well, it can’t raise the dead unless it saw the creature die. It can’t even make useful weapons for the players to keep on their quest to fight evil. Its best use, perhaps, is as a support mount for some other creature.

In the changeover, the Ki-rin lost its Cleric spellcasting (and most of their higher level spells), which is the thing that actually made it threatening in combat to begin with: The ability to force multiply any of its minions. It gained truesight (to make up for the loss of the spell) the Sacred Fire attack (to make up for the loss of the Sacred Flame Cantrip), and had its horn attack buffed a bit.
The ki-rin is another good example of a spellcasting monster that got neutered with the changeover. I worry things like liches will be similar in the revamp; underwhelming at being more than a blaster with a few mobility and control tricks.
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FitzTheRuke

Legend
Looking at both versions of the Ki-rin side-by-side is interesting. There's some strange things like the Legacy version having HP as 152 (16d12+48) and the new one having 153 (18d10+54). Interestingly, the old version says it's an 18th level spellcaster, yet it only has 16 hit dice. Now it has 18 HD, but essentially the same HP.

I have to admit, I do miss it having a few of the spells it has in the old version, but I vastly approve of the way the layout is reworked.
 

bergec

Explorer
Looking at both versions of the Ki-rin side-by-side is interesting. There's some strange things like the Legacy version having HP as 152 (16d12+48) and the new one having 153 (18d10+54). Interestingly, the old version says it's an 18th level spellcaster, yet it only has 16 hit dice. Now it has 18 HD, but essentially the same HP.

I have to admit, I do miss it having a few of the spells it has in the old version, but I vastly approve of the way the layout is reworked.
They changed the size from Huge to Large, hence the Hit Dice type change. The spellcaster level never mapped to the Hit Dice.
 

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