D&D 5E Let’s Read Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse.

[MonsterEnvy]

I'm reading this thread to find out about the new monsters, not for a 3 page discussion of how their spellcasting change requires the DM to use good judgement in order to interact with Counterspell. Can that be moved to another thread please?

Yeah I agree though I am partially to blame.

 

[Parmandur]

No, they don't have to, but some people like them to be at least comparable, for a variety of reasons. That's just as valid a preference.

Well, it's not really a preference issue when the system never promised that. Process simulation is not something that has been a priority for most D&D, and it has been gone for a long time.

 

[Faolyn]

Again, they changed the rules mid-edition.

OK. But how likely is it to actually affect your game? It your players are the type to say "hey, how come we used to be able to counter this thing the bad guy did?" then just change them back into spells, or assign an appropriate DC based on what you think the spell's level would be. Or just handwave it away and say "starting from now, this is how it's always been."

 

[Leatherhead]

I can't say that I didn't expect people to debate the changes a bit, but the Counterspell change really should have it's own thread to establish a proper discussion about the pros and cons of it. Anyway, it's time for something that might be equally controversial: Anime in D&D.

Hobgoblin Iron Shadow (VGtM)​

The Hobgoblin Iron Shadow is a Fey Ninja. And that’s all I really need to say about them for most people to have made up their mind as to if they love them or hate them.

The Iron Shadow, as their name implies, possesses a bit of shadow magic. Namely the spells Disguise Self, Silent Image, Minor Image, and the ability to teleport between shadows. This toolkit makes them very good at infiltration, but a keen DM would also note they don’t possess the social skills to back up their disguise kit. Which is probably for the best, as it allows PCs with even mediocre skills to uncover the spy and a conflict to happen. They also possess the spell Charm Person, should you need an excuse for them to trick someone.

In combat, the Iron Shadow has a four attack multiattack using their fists or darts for short range coverage. The Multiattack also allows them to use their Shadow Jaunt power. This combined with a 40’ movement speed means they are almost always able to slip behind the front line and pressure the squishies. Alternatively, it also means they have a really easy time running away after stealing some sensitive documents. Unfortunately they cannot combine their spellcasting with their Multiattack, which would primarily be used to set up a few decoys while teleporting to draw out an attack and eat up actions.


In the changeover, the Iron Shadow was changed into a Fey(Goblinoid). It lost the spells True Strike (hah) and Expeditious Retreat, along with their Wizard spell slots mechanic, in favor of more generic innate spellcasting.

 

[Remathilis]

Npcs and PCs don’t need to use the Same rules.

Is that evident in the fiction, such as the PCs being from a different species from NPCs, or is it purely a rule mechanic that is not acknowledged in world?

For example, let's say the PCs fight an NPC warrior in full plate and using a greatsword. When the knight hits, he does 4d6 damage and he has a 23 AC. The PCs vanquish the knight, and when the fighter puts on the plate and grabs the sword is confused to find the armor is mundane plate (AC 18) and a mundane greatsword (2d6 damage). I think it's fair he asks why the knight was hitting harder and harder to hit and the answer be more then "well, a creature at CR x must have suchinsuch AC and do Y amount of damage per round..."

Even then, you can obscure a fair amount of combat math just due to the nonspecific nature of AC and HP. Its harder to justify when every Abjurer Wizard you encounter can use a magical attack called Arcane Bolt and the only Abjurers that can't are you and your PC friends.

 

[Reynard]

Again, they changed the rules mid-edition.

No they didn't. As someone pointed out to me in another thread, these non-spell spell attacks have been around sound launch. The Lich is an example.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

For example, let's say the PCs fight an NPC warrior in full plate and using a greatsword. When the knight hits, he does 4d6 damage and he has a 23 AC. The PCs vanquish the knight, and when the fighter puts on the plate and grabs the sword is confused to find the armor is mundane plate (AC 18) and a mundane greatsword (2d6 damage). I think it's fair he asks why the knight was hitting harder and harder to hit and the answer be more then "well, a creature at CR x must have suchinsuch AC and do Y amount of damage per round..."

I mean that is just built into this edition (Brute you deal double the dice of damage on a melee hit) and I would say "That knight was trained to use the armor and sword better than you are... maybe next time make friends with and learn from the knight instead of killing it and taking it's stuff"

Even then, you can obscure a fair amount of combat math just due to the nonspecific nature of AC and HP. Its harder to justify when every Abjurer Wizard you encounter can use a magical attack called Arcane Bolt and the only Abjurers that can't are you and your PC friends.

i started another thread about letting PCs learn these... but I guess it is something that only comes up if you have ALOT of abjurer wizards show up... even 2 knowing that could just be something special and you can say the other 150 abjurers in the world (including the PCs) didn't have that.

It's like a sorcerer taking fireball at level 5 and haste at the next level they get a spell known, and complaining "Why did the last 3 NPC sorcerers have counterspell and I don't" the answer should be the same "Its just a trick you haven't learned"

 

[MonsterEnvy]

This argument was asked to be continued in it's own thread.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No they didn't. As someone pointed out to me in another thread, these non-spell spell attacks have been around sound launch. The Lich is an example.

They changed the rules for a subset of monsters mid-stream. Did you really not know what I meant? They removed a significant number of spells from a given monster and replaced some of them with very similar effects which are now, for reasons that matter only to gameplay, no longer spells.

I get that a lot of people don't care or think its great, I'm happy you're getting what you want. I don't like it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I mean that is just built into this edition (Brute you deal double the dice of damage on a melee hit) and I would say "That knight was trained to use the armor and sword better than you are... maybe next time make friends with and learn from the knight instead of killing it and taking it's stuff"

i started another thread about letting PCs learn these... but I guess it is something that only comes up if you have ALOT of abjurer wizards show up... even 2 knowing that could just be something special and you can say the other 150 abjurers in the world (including the PCs) didn't have that.

It's like a sorcerer taking fireball at level 5 and haste at the next level they get a spell known, and complaining "Why did the last 3 NPC sorcerers have counterspell and I don't" the answer should be the same "Its just a trick you haven't learned"

That should be the answer, yes. But the real answer from WotC is, "That's just the way it is."