D&D 5E Let’s Read Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse.

[FitzTheRuke]

some wizards learned to obfuscate spell casting to avoid counterspelling...

Sure. But those are different techniques than these. Just like the real world - there is more than one way to accomplish complex things.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Never logical, no, and that indeed presents its own set of problems. But changing an effect from spell to not-spell for "simplicity" and so it can't be counterspelled is blatant mid-edition revisionist gamism and I don't like it.

Then don’t change in the middle of a campaign or whatever. The monsters are different now, do you complain about that when an edition changes?

 

[Faolyn]

How does it make sense to you then? And ignoring it is not the same thing.

Some things are spells. Other things are not, even if they're similar.

Maybe counterspell affects an unintentional back door left in each spell, or deliberately placed there by the God of Spells, or sneaked into each spell by the God of Hating Magic.

Maybe counterspell affects only things that are built around the Weave or background mana or whatever the source of magic is by disrupting the spell's connection to the source, but innate magic relies partly on the caster's own self and thus isn't disrupted.

Maybe counterspell is specifically keyed to only affect spells, and the spell's AI is too dumb to recognize non-spells.

 

[Micah Sweet]

some wizards learned to obfuscate spell casting to avoid counterspelling...

A trick that only NPCs learned, apparently, that can't be taught to PCs.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I don't know about you but I never used the switch ups mid campaign (even 3 to 3.5) so we never needed a reason for the change, it was always that way for each campagin

I'm certainly not using this switch up.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Then don’t change in the middle of a campaign or whatever. The monsters are different now, do you complain about that when an edition changes?

I do, a little bit. Nearly all of my official lore is derived from 2nd edition. I played 4th ed for a year, then abandoned it after I gave it a fair chance. I enjoyed 3rd ed well enough, and was sorry to see it be replaced.

So yeah, I guess I do complain when they change monsters.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Some things are spells. Other things are not, even if they're similar.

Maybe counterspell affects an unintentional back door left in each spell, or deliberately placed there by the God of Spells, or sneaked into each spell by the God of Hating Magic.

Maybe counterspell affects only things that are built around the Weave or background mana or whatever the source of magic is by disrupting the spell's connection to the source, but innate magic relies partly on the caster's own self and thus isn't disrupted.

Maybe counterspell is specifically keyed to only affect spells, and the spell's AI is too dumb to recognize non-spells.

I see what you're saying, but as I mentioned above, I have a bigger issue with the mid-stream change made purely for reasons that mean nothing to me.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

A trick that only NPCs learned, apparently, that can't be taught to PCs.

Npcs and PCs don’t need to use the Same rules.

 

[Faolyn]

I see what you're saying, but as I mentioned above, I have a bigger issue with the mid-stream change made purely for reasons that mean nothing to me.

Back in 3x, you could counter spells but not spell-like abilities or supernatural abilities. This is literally the same thing, but without the (Sp) and (Su) tags.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Actually a question Micah, have you used any supplements or extra player material like Xanathar’s or Tasha’s since you started playing 5e? Or any of the new monster books like Volo’s or Mordenkainen’s?