D&D 5E Let 'em live or die?

[aco175]

Like what @Umbran said a few posts ago, you need to know the player and how she would react. An 8yo kid may throw a fit and not really understand the game, but he might and be cool with dying. I also have adult players that go both ways in terms of PC death.

I tend to not have much PC death in my games, but it needs to be a constant threat or option for the stupid. If the player was acting foolish and charged a dozen monsters acting on his will, then fine he can die. If the surroundings changed and the player was not acting foolish, then maybe the PC gets back in. This is where DM foreshadow may come in with me telling the players that the monsters may be on alert or describe the entrance as changed and they appear more on alert. This at least provides the players with some knowledge that things have changed.

All of this, plus the fact that you already established that PC retcon was available for players. If it is available to some, then it must be available to all. There may be something like a NPC cleric held prisoner that can raise him or a secret room with holy waters- whatever. You can find a NPC for the player to use while the others bring his body back to the temple, something.

 

[Krachek]

Xvart are not very smart and wise. So there might be a option to fool them and escape.
But otherwise will It be mandatory to finish every lair one shot without rest to avoid reinforcement and a deadly fight? If you plan that, better slay them and make a statement about their error.

 

[toucanbuzz]

All you have to do is choose to KO them in melee combat rather than kill them and you don't even need to fudge that....Keep in mind, you chose to have the xvarts fight to outright kill. You can choose to change that.

I had to make the call after the PCs insulted their god, killed several xvarts, and destroyed their centipede hatchery. But to be clear, the battle is over and done. The PCs won but one was killed in the battle.

Tell the players it is up to them.

I just ask the player what they want to happen to their character.

You should ask your players what they really want. For example, for some, the resulting narrative is what is important....

The video @J-H posted (Colville at 24:55) is on point. He quotes a player who said when a character dies, he's angry at the DM for a bit. It's a time of "don't talk to me, don't try to bring me back from the dead" because that's also going to make me mad. For that player, he deals with character death by stewing, then rolling up a new character.

I'm an AD&D child, so character deaths were a common, given thing. But, I think reaching out and saying "how do you want to play this out" will mean a lot more than me saying "you're dead" or "you're secretly alive."

 

[Umbran]

I had to make the call after the PCs insulted their god, killed several xvarts, and destroyed their centipede hatchery. But to be clear, the battle is over and done. The PCs won but one was killed in the battle.

Did the party leave with the body of their fallen comrade? Oldest trope in the book - if you don't have the body, they might not be dead.

But, I think reaching out and saying "how do you want to play this out" will mean a lot more than me saying "you're dead" or "you're secretly alive."

That's probably an excellent step.

 

[embee]

While DMing today, a PC died today, 2nd level on the cusp of 3rd. It was partially good DM rolls, partially poor planning. The battle:

Spoiler

The PCs attacked a xvart lair then left to take a 1 hour short rest. Xvarts aren't stupid, and they regrouped the bulk of their forces in a central war room while directing a force to trail the PCs and block any escape. Rather than infiltrating the lair and taking it room-by-room, 5 2nd level PCs faced a very deadly encounter of 13 alert xvarts, 1 xvart warlock, and 1 giant tick. Given the PCs had killed a sacred whiptail centipede, destroyed the centipede hatchery, and insulted their deity, this wasn't a battle where prisoners were going to be taken. It wasn't a glorious death that anyone will write stories about.

I generally don't like pulling punches in my games and roll in full view. In doing so, I can't fudge away a character death when the dice do their thing. I'm not inclined to because if players catch on the DM is going to intervene every time death is near with a convenient plot device, it'll cheapen the experience. After all, why roll in combat when you know the DM won't really let you perish, perhaps because you wrote an awesome backstory that fits with the campaign?

Still, it stinks. I can tell she was bummed, and there's not many options for low-level characters. A few weeks ago, I pulled a DM intervention for another gamer whose character died at 1st level due to a really unfortunate random encounter roll. Thanks to befriending some fey, they quested and got hooked up with a druid reincarnate, and a hefty IOU. It was good times and in the past I've turned low-level death into a quest.

Should I intervene, again, though, with another convenient story plot device given I just did so? I've got ideas, but it feels contrived to do this twice in a row and so quickly.

Dead is dead. Let them roll up a 2nd level character. And if they were that close to Level 3, maybe have them start with 550 xp. It sucks but, let's be honest, this was a 2nd level character. They are still very squishy and it's kind of like being emotionally attached to a betta fish.

 

[Oofta]

Dead is dead. Let them roll up a 2nd level character. And if they were that close to Level 3, maybe have them start with 550 xp. It sucks but, let's be honest, this was a 2nd level character. They are still very squishy and it's kind of like being emotionally attached to a betta fish.

What? You monster! Bloopie was the bestest pet ever. I mean, sure every once and a while he'd show off his backstroke for a day or two until my mom had the chance to get to the store for his vitamins but the then he was as right as rain. Okay, the vitamins sometimes changed how he looked a tiny bit, but Bloopie was darn near immortal.

 

[iserith]

The video @J-H posted (Colville at 24:55) is on point. He quotes a player who said when a character dies, he's angry at the DM for a bit. It's a time of "don't talk to me, don't try to bring me back from the dead" because that's also going to make me mad. For that player, he deals with character death by stewing, then rolling up a new character.

I'm an AD&D child, so character deaths were a common, given thing. But, I think reaching out and saying "how do you want to play this out" will mean a lot more than me saying "you're dead" or "you're secretly alive."

Yeah, the DM bailing out a player from the consequences of their own decisions can often feel worse than the consequences themselves. I don't get upset about my characters dying. In fact, there have been many instances where I see a good death coming and lean into it because a good death is very memorable (which is one of the goals of play!). But for whatever reason the DM let up and it didn't happen, leading to my disappointment. A DM trying to spare a player's feelings may end up in a worse situation than if things played out as normal.

There's also a thing nowadays where character investment happens before play because players are asked to write relatively extensive backstories or the like. I get why people do it but it only feeds into the dissatisfaction later on that the "work" put into the character has been lost perhaps before they even leave apprentice tier. This is exacerbated if the DM has written whole plots or subplots around the character's backstory. This is why, in part, I don't ask players to do anything in particular prior to play. If they write a backstory, I ask them to keep it to the length of a tweet. If their characters die, oh well, it's not like a ton of their work was "wasted," and none of my plots or subplots are disrupted because I'm not basing anything in the campaign on their backstories. Write the story of the character during play, not before play, I say.

 

[embee]

Did the party leave with the body of their fallen comrade? Oldest trope in the book - if you don't have the body, they might not be dead.




That's probably an excellent step.

You still have a 10 day time limit and the cost. The bare minimum is 500 gp and, presumably, this is a Level 2 group. You have to kill a lot of goblins to put together that kind of cash.

 

[Umbran]

You still have a 10 day time limit and the cost.

Unless they've continued on with major efforts, the time limit is not yet an issue.

As for the cost - an entanglement with a patron until you have paid off their expenditure is easy to accomplish, and often a fine excuse to present the PCs with an adventure. Duke Wossname got you raised form the dead. He wants you to clear out the Lost Mine of Phandelver so he can take possession of it and kick off mining again. You get to keep all the loot you find, and he takes all future proceeds from the mine, and you're square with the Duke.

And, returning to backstories - if you have a backstory, that likely includes a list of people or events that might make interesting connections for such things. So, yes, if you have the backstory, you are more apt to live!

 

[Bacon Bits]

Yeah, the DM bailing out a player from the consequences of their own decisions can often feel worse than the consequences themselves.

That really depends on how much the PCs knew.

Like, break this down. There were 13 xvarts (CR 1/8 @ 25 XP), 1 xvart warlock (CR 1 @ 200 XP) and 1 giant tick (assuming it's like a giant wasp, CR 1/2 @ 100 XP). 25 * 13 + 200 + 100 = 625 XP. Since there's 15 creatures, that's a x4 multiplier: 625 * 4 = 2,500 XP.

The group is 5 level 2 PCs. The deadly threshold for that is 1,000 XP. The daily budget for 5 level 2 PCs is 3,000 XP. This is way beyond deadly. This one encounter is 5/6 of the entire adventuring day's budget. It is 5 medium encounters worth of difficulty in one encounter. What exactly did the DM do to communicate exactly how $%&#@ the PCs were?