Let the Players Manage themselves Part 2

[Jhulae]

People must be just skipping right over gloombunnys answer, because it's proof that many of the arguments being posited are wrong.

No, it's not "proof", especially in light of the last bulleted point that spells out you can't take actions at the beginning of your turn and also the fact that 'the start of the turn' is completely separate from 'the actions on your turn'.

 

[Wepwawet]

Taking damage and Regenerating can be the difference between life and death for a PC or a Monster.

That's how it works in M:tG, but in this game I prefer that they happen at the same time. I mean, if you take ongoing damage to take you to -1 hp and you have regeneration 5, I'd leave you at 4 hps (on the other hand, a monster could die, depending on how difficult the battle is)

 

[Gloombunny]

No, it's not "proof", especially in light of the last bulleted point that spells out you can't take actions at the beginning of your turn and also the fact that 'the start of the turn' is completely separate from 'the actions on your turn'.

My answer that the last bulleted point proves the list should not be taken in order is invalided by... the last bulleted point? How does that even make sense?

 

[wedgeski]

No order is implied by that bullet list, and the CustServ answer is perfectly in keeping with other advice given in the past that the player should be able to decide in which order to apply effectively simultaneous effects.

 

[Plane Sailing]

The whole point of unordered lists (bullets) vs ordered lists (numbers, letters etc) is that the former is unordered.

I think CustServ is right here.

Cheers

 

[Skyscraper]

As the discussion in this thread suggests, it appears to be unclear in the rules whether there is an order to the list or not. I would think not, but others think the contrary. Thus the question to CustServ.

Their answer is well along the lines of 4E: use what order you think makes more sense. Fair enough.

Sky

 

[Adso]

I just don't understand how articles like these get put up when all they had to do literally was run a search on the word regeneration. (I'm assuming the writer had access to the rpgnow pdf's.)

Articles like these get put up after conversations in the D&D development pit (the place where work) that involve designers, customer service, developers, and editors, usually with books open and doing searches on terms like regeneration.

This one came up after it came up in Chris Perkin's game (funny story, the Chris of the question in...er...question). We got together, chatted about it, and then I wrote that section of the column based on the outcome of those conversations.

The list is not meant to be sequential (I double checked with the editors), though I can see why some folks use it as such. Using as a sequential list will not ruin your game, damn you to a purgatory of wrong-minded DMs or anything ridiculous like that, and leads to perfectly reasonable results most of the time, but I would submit it's not the best answer for the reasons I point out in the column.

At the same time, like any kind of rules issues you find in the "Save My Game" column, this is a rules-lite answer. It's more of what we consider the best option in the face of true rules silence or ambiguity, usually when coming up with a true official update answer would just overly complicate the game.

Strictly, it is not right, it is not wrong...nothing nearly that binary...it's just what we consider the best way of dealing with what could be in an issue in your campaign. Mileage may vary. I tried to get that point across in the column; maybe I could have done a better job of that.

Hope that helps!

 

[Plane Sailing]

Thanks for coming in with clarification, Stephen!

 

[Gorrstagg]

Stephen thanks for dropping in and giving a good answer. And I do appreciate that you checked to determine if its supposed to be sequential. Until you said that, you had checked, I considered it to be just another "Personal" choice.

But if your intending it to not be sequential, and that's the official answer. I will apologize for my harsh declaration.

I am a bit miffed that it isn't sequential. Because it doesn't specifically include the caveat that you can do these in any order, like the actions caveat. But I'll accept that it is up to each group how or in what order they wish to run the start of the turn.

I'm still more inclined to go the route of the current order we've been following for the last several months now. But I'll present it to my group. And I'll reserve judgement with our groups choice to some play testing experience.

At times though, I think some of this is getting too easy for the players. And though I ignored the original DC's for difficulty tables (the add 5 for skill tests), and I'm ignoring the redone version as well (knee jerk reaction to push it so far the other way) and just going with them literally as they are written in the DMG sans the +5 for skills.

The too easy is relative. But to Stephen. Thank you for dropping in and clarifying the answer. I do appreciate it and I do apologize for my PPC blast initial thread. It was done quickly before rushing out the door, and I didn't get to temper it and blah blah blah. Sorry. And thanks.

 

[keterys]

Because it doesn't specifically include the caveat that you can do these in any order, like the actions caveat.

It's not numberered / ordered, so neither section needs a caveat. The actions one just helps dispel frequent questions no doubt. I'm guessing that the order to apply the start of turn effects doesn't come up as a question that often, since it truly matters pretty rarely. If you've got ongoing damage _and_ regen that only works when you're bloodied or if you're close to 0 hp, mostly.

For example, there are no rules for which order to take ongoing damage in or which order to make saves in - there is no caveat required. It might be helpful, but there's limited word count and the more you put such caveats in, the more people think they're required when you don't state them. In truth, the only time you need to put a rule is when you _have_ to do things in a certain order. Rest of the time, not required.