Let's ban Teleport!
Teleport
The biggest issues people have is that it is used in a manner similar to a saved game. The party gets to go back in fore-warned of the dangers of an encounter, in a very short space of time, and prepared.
Travelling using teleport is not that big an issue. If there is a plot piece involved in travelling to a location, then make a PLOT device to stop teleportation. e.g. Increase in magic fluctuations, attraction of monsters seeking ways into the material plane are drawn to people teleporting and come through with them.
Anything that makes it more dangerous reduces the temptation.
What teleportation does stop is the low-CR encounters with wildlife and bandits, the ones that are there for the next generation of heroes. Those encounters that are ignored because they pose no threat.
Now my solution for the in-combat escape plan is:
1) Dimensional Anchor on a party member (preferably the wizard)
2) Increase the casting time of teleportation to a full round or slightly longer.
Option 1 is available at higher levels. My 18th level sorcereress has it to combat the bad guys escaping and doing what DM's (on this thread) don't like the players doing! It works both ways and this way your players find solutions for you!
Option 2 makes teleport a much more difficult spell and one that requires a bit of fore-sight and skill to make the spell effective. On top of that it takes the wizard out of the fight. Hence it becomes a less attractive option than being creative.
The biggest issues people have is that it is used in a manner similar to a saved game. The party gets to go back in fore-warned of the dangers of an encounter, in a very short space of time, and prepared.
Travelling using teleport is not that big an issue. If there is a plot piece involved in travelling to a location, then make a PLOT device to stop teleportation. e.g. Increase in magic fluctuations, attraction of monsters seeking ways into the material plane are drawn to people teleporting and come through with them.
Anything that makes it more dangerous reduces the temptation.
What teleportation does stop is the low-CR encounters with wildlife and bandits, the ones that are there for the next generation of heroes. Those encounters that are ignored because they pose no threat.
Now my solution for the in-combat escape plan is:
1) Dimensional Anchor on a party member (preferably the wizard)
2) Increase the casting time of teleportation to a full round or slightly longer.
Option 1 is available at higher levels. My 18th level sorcereress has it to combat the bad guys escaping and doing what DM's (on this thread) don't like the players doing! It works both ways and this way your players find solutions for you!
Option 2 makes teleport a much more difficult spell and one that requires a bit of fore-sight and skill to make the spell effective. On top of that it takes the wizard out of the fight. Hence it becomes a less attractive option than being creative.
Thanee
First Post
Dimensional Anchor is one spell my Sorceress will aquire, too. It's extremely important to stop the bad guys from simply teleporting away. 
It doesn't help, when the party does this after a combat, tho. Effectively, if there is no time limit, Teleport allows to adventure for a short while and once the resources are used up to a degree, teleport into safety, rest and repeat. This way, the party is always at full buffs when they are out, which increases their combat capabilities considerably, as we all know.
Bye
Thanee
It doesn't help, when the party does this after a combat, tho. Effectively, if there is no time limit, Teleport allows to adventure for a short while and once the resources are used up to a degree, teleport into safety, rest and repeat. This way, the party is always at full buffs when they are out, which increases their combat capabilities considerably, as we all know.
Bye
Thanee
Silverglass
Registered User
Two options that have been widely used in campaigns I've been involved in (as a DM or Player) is that Scrying does not give a clear enough mental picture for accurate teleportation, it always counts as "Viewed Once" and Greater Teleport uses the same table as Teleport but it any result other than On Target causes you to reappear at your stating location.
The other major change is that the spells become Rituals with their cast time increased to 1 hour and needing a magic circle drawn at the departure point. This leaves their use as Transport spells but absolutely removes any combat/savepoint uses. We have also occasionally raised the levels to 7th and 9th respectively.
There is also a 5th level spell in our campaigns called Object Field that covers a reasonable area (and is permanent if cast 9 times consecutively) which acts by making the area count as a False Destination by changing the signature that the caster locks on to. It does not however block teleportation out or any planar travel unless this also uses visualisation of the target area. This spell is widely utilised by NPCs and PC's and means that attempts to Teleport into guarded locations usually leave you somewhat damaged and a variable distance away. This removes the use of Teleport as an attack spell (which is still possible with a long cast time). Special Alchemical materials also exist that block magical transport and are used in construction.
I don't think its consistent to have creatures that can teleport using (sp) or (su) abilities but disallow the spells themselves. If this sort of magic can do something then it should be possible to research a spell to do the same thing.
The other major change is that the spells become Rituals with their cast time increased to 1 hour and needing a magic circle drawn at the departure point. This leaves their use as Transport spells but absolutely removes any combat/savepoint uses. We have also occasionally raised the levels to 7th and 9th respectively.
There is also a 5th level spell in our campaigns called Object Field that covers a reasonable area (and is permanent if cast 9 times consecutively) which acts by making the area count as a False Destination by changing the signature that the caster locks on to. It does not however block teleportation out or any planar travel unless this also uses visualisation of the target area. This spell is widely utilised by NPCs and PC's and means that attempts to Teleport into guarded locations usually leave you somewhat damaged and a variable distance away. This removes the use of Teleport as an attack spell (which is still possible with a long cast time). Special Alchemical materials also exist that block magical transport and are used in construction.
I don't think its consistent to have creatures that can teleport using (sp) or (su) abilities but disallow the spells themselves. If this sort of magic can do something then it should be possible to research a spell to do the same thing.
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WizarDru
Adventurer
Considering how many high-level outsiders have Teleport, Greater Teleport and Planeshift at will, it's not just handy, it's essential.Thanee said:Dimensional Anchor is one spell my Sorceress will aquire, too. It's extremely important to stop the bad guys from simply teleporting away.
It doesn't help, when the party does this after a combat, tho. Effectively, if there is no time limit, Teleport allows to adventure for a short while and once the resources are used up to a degree, teleport into safety, rest and repeat. This way, the party is always at full buffs when they are out, which increases their combat capabilities considerably, as we all know.
It's been my experience that high-level parties tend to have fewer, tougher combats rather than lots of level apporpriate ones. The group will usually have good intelligence and will be able to lead a sortie against the bad guys at full strength and vice-versa. While I have my own suggestions, handling said challenges is unique to each party and DM.
Thanee
First Post
How do you read "just handy" instead of "essential" out of "extremely important"!?
Anyways... Yes, high level play evolves more around tougher encounters, but why is this?
I think it is a direct reaction to the fact, that there is little hindering a high level party to run around at their absolute full strength all the time (or stay in a safe place the other 80% of the time).
The higher EL is just to challenge the party, which is, thanks to the plethora of buffs, operating at a higher average level than their party level suggests.
Now, if it wasn't that easy (i.e. since there was no Teleport), then a more "natural" encounter structure might work again, which would otherwise just be throwing cannonfodder at the supercharged PCs, which would in turn be boring, of course.
Bye
Thanee
Anyways... Yes, high level play evolves more around tougher encounters, but why is this?
I think it is a direct reaction to the fact, that there is little hindering a high level party to run around at their absolute full strength all the time (or stay in a safe place the other 80% of the time).
The higher EL is just to challenge the party, which is, thanks to the plethora of buffs, operating at a higher average level than their party level suggests.
Now, if it wasn't that easy (i.e. since there was no Teleport), then a more "natural" encounter structure might work again, which would otherwise just be throwing cannonfodder at the supercharged PCs, which would in turn be boring, of course.
Bye
Thanee
Dark Dragon
Explorer
As a DM, I always have some trouble with teleporting PCs. But on the other hand, you have to be creative as a DM to "protect" your plot from some nasty spells, abilities and so on.
Teleport is used IMC as written in the 3.5 PHB. I'd like to change it to the AD&D version but that would end in a revolte by the players (4 of 5 PCs can teleport...).
Luckily, I got the PGtF and found a funny item description inside: the Weirdstone. It is quite powerful for 250k market price. It blocks all astral tavel (including teleport, ethereal jaunt), scry sensor creation and plane shifting effects in a 6 mile radius. This is large enough to put a whole dungeon of RttToEE size into it.
And to my understanding of the item (and I've ruled it so), it foils summoning spells as well because a summon spell transports something from somewhere (another plane, for example) to the caster...That sounds quite similar to a teleport spell.
Of course, always using teleport blockers becomes boring, but IMC, the players decided quite late on how to deal with the evil guys. Not too late, but unfortunately the BBEGs were able to steal a weirdstone from the ruins of Myth Drannor before...![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
Teleport is used IMC as written in the 3.5 PHB. I'd like to change it to the AD&D version but that would end in a revolte by the players (4 of 5 PCs can teleport...).
Luckily, I got the PGtF and found a funny item description inside: the Weirdstone. It is quite powerful for 250k market price. It blocks all astral tavel (including teleport, ethereal jaunt), scry sensor creation and plane shifting effects in a 6 mile radius. This is large enough to put a whole dungeon of RttToEE size into it.
And to my understanding of the item (and I've ruled it so), it foils summoning spells as well because a summon spell transports something from somewhere (another plane, for example) to the caster...That sounds quite similar to a teleport spell.
Of course, always using teleport blockers becomes boring, but IMC, the players decided quite late on how to deal with the evil guys. Not too late, but unfortunately the BBEGs were able to steal a weirdstone from the ruins of Myth Drannor before...
WizarDru
Adventurer
That wasn't a counter-argument, that was an agreement.Thanee said:How do you read "just handy" instead of "essential" out of "extremely important"!?
It's a combination of factors, of which teleport is but one. A high-level party is never totally unprepared. They have too many gadgets, abilities and connections. BUT, an equal factor is the issue that verisimilitude rarely supports long strings of powerful enemies all at once.Thanee said:
Consider "Lich Queen's Beloved", "Storm Lord's Keep", "Bastion of Broken Souls" and "Lord of the Iron Fortress", for example. Bastion and Lord both shuttle you around different planes to keep you busy. Lich and Storm both shuttle you through different 'zones' to keep the party occupied (Lich being a good example, and Storm being a bad one, IMHO). All of them force high-level players to burn resources to get to unique and usually remote locations, and then keep them off their guard by forcing them to adapt to new environments as they go. All of them either introduce or strongly encourage throwing a time-limit factor of sorts into the module. In LQB, the Githyanki queen is about to become a demi-god, if she isn't stopped. In Bastion, Ashardalon is about to break-free and return to wreak havoc, and in Lord, the bbeg is going to forge his baatorian steel sword of power. I don't recall exactly, but I think Storm had the Storm Lord preparing an assualt on yet another town, and forcing the players to stop him before the next deadly attack.
Buffs are only meaningful when available. High-level dispels are just as accessible as high-level buffs, and quicker to strip away than to add. The party isn't acting at a higher-level...they're just willing to burn more resources more readily. Note that in the above modules, opportunity cost is in full effect: a tactical strike is one thing, but if the players have five hours to find and stop the BBEG, and they have to perform several functions first, they're less likely to spend those precious teleports.
Ultimately, most high-level spells with throw a wrench in the works, in this respect. High-level players can totally dominate a battle-field, if they aren't taken totally by suprise. While we're on the topic, you may need to add Shapechange and Dominate Monster to your list of banned spells. A smart spellcaster will just dominate the first 'Teleport at will' monster he fights, and then you're back to square one. When spells like Forcecage, Imprisonment, Maze and others come out of the box, you've got lots more to deal with.
Most of what you're describing isn't Teleport, it's the whole BST cycle....and I grant you, it's an issue. There are counters to it, but it locks everyone into a cycle that seems very mechanical, utilizing Screen, Foresight, Mind Blank and various boltholes that the rules suggest. If you don't like that style of play, then you should make changes (and removing said spells certainly is a good start). My point is that it reaches much further than just removing the actual spell.
It all depends on which is your concern...the impact on the player's tactics or the impact on the campaign world.
My world has fewer high level NPCs, and spells like teleport and force effect spells are forgotten "High Magic". So, there are basically no campaign ramificatons from those spells.
For the players, they can research "High Magic" spells. Makes them quite famous..."Wow...did you hear that Bob the Ubermage can.../gasp fly!"
For me the difficulty of Scry, Buff, Teleport, scenarios is balanced by the effort the players put into gaining the spells.
My world has fewer high level NPCs, and spells like teleport and force effect spells are forgotten "High Magic". So, there are basically no campaign ramificatons from those spells.
For the players, they can research "High Magic" spells. Makes them quite famous..."Wow...did you hear that Bob the Ubermage can.../gasp fly!"
For me the difficulty of Scry, Buff, Teleport, scenarios is balanced by the effort the players put into gaining the spells.
