D&D 5E Let's break the Ring of Spell Storing

[billd91]

There is always going to be a market for magic items, because in a believable world you don't just find what you want so pc's and npc's alike sell, trade, barter, and take items.

There may be a market, but it won't necessarily be stable or include what the PCs think they want. I've never, in any edition (including 2nd which really tried to squelch magic item pricing), had a problem with PCs selling the items they found. Buying anything they want? That's not so easy. I don't make it a buyer's market in which the random buyer determines what the market will provide. I might allow something akin to it via patronage but not because some crafter speculated that some adventurer might want to buy a Frost Brand someday.

 

[Greg31415]

When the players pass around a Ring of Spell Storing into which a Paladin has cast "Find Steed" into, so everyone gets a "Found Steed", what does the DM do? This is the sort of thing that differentiates the Ok DMs from the Really Good DMs. The former might throw up their hands, saying "What ?!!!? This breaks the game! I can't allow this! I need to either find something in the rules that prevents it, or change the rules to prevent it". However, the good DM says "Hmm...ok. You do that. Now, for the consequences."

So what are the consequences for when the whole party gets a "Found Steed"?

Well, think about this for a moment. What is the spell "Find Steed"? It is a class feature for a Paladin, set up to work through a spell. A paladin is a holy warrior that gets certain perks in exchange for serving the cause of his/her deity - being their right hand, the executor of their will. One of those perks is a "Found Steed" - a celestial/fey/fiendish spirit that, sent by the deity, assuming the form of some creature, and has intelligence (>=6) (thus a sentient NPC), with a telepathic link (with within a mile). Sooo, a non-paladin wants a "Found Steed"? Do they now? Ok. But, that comes with some baggage. The Found-Steed is a package deal - with a whole set of obligations. The obligations balance the perks. The non-paladin gets the steed, _and_ then also gets the baggage - they need to ACT LIKE A PALADIN OF DIETY X to some degree - and this is perfectly fine. How does this play out? Well, the Found-Steed will insist its owner serve the interests of deity X, live up to their standards, etc. The steed knows what the owner is thinking. So, suppose the owner steals something from a merchant. The steed, having been sent from a LG deity is itself LG. Because of the telepathic link, they know exactly what the owner did, and what they are thinking. The steed might refuse to take the owner anywhere until they go back to merchant and atone for their misconduct. The steed is a sentient NPC, and thus is ultimately controlled by the DM. The steed can rebel or refuse to serve the PC if the PC acts in a way incompatible with the wishes of the deity that sent the spirit that became the steed. The PC can not hide _anything_ from the steed because of the thought-sharing that goes on with the telepathic link (thats how I run the telepathic link - its literally like two minds, each knowing the thoughts of the other). This can become very much a "be careful what you wish for - you just might get it" scenario. Bottom line - if the PC wants a perk of the Paladin class - a Found Steed - and they want that steed to actually do as they ask and help them - then the PC must act like a paladin of the deity of the paladin that cast the Find Steed spell into the ring of Spell Storing (or Ioun Stone of Reserve).

So how would this play out in the end? Each PC is either going to have to adopt the same standards of conduct as the paladin that did the casting - in which, ok, fine, that is the price of the perk. Or, the PC will quickly get fed up with her/his Found Steed, and humorously, decide "screw this!!! I want a normal steed! One that won't judge me and lecture me all the time! Argggg!!!". Ha ha ha

See? No need for the DM to fret. These things work themselves out.

 

[MoonSong]

When the players pass around a Ring of Spell Storing into which a Paladin has cast "Find Steed" into, so everyone gets a "Found Steed", what does the DM do? This is the sort of thing that differentiates the Ok DMs from the Really Good DMs. The former might throw up their hands, saying "What ?!!!? This breaks the game! I can't allow this! I need to either find something in the rules that prevents it, or change the rules to prevent it". However, the good DM says "Hmm...ok. You do that. Now, for the consequences."

So what are the consequences for when the whole party gets a "Found Steed"?

Well, think about this for a moment. What is the spell "Find Steed"? It is a class feature for a Paladin, set up to work through a spell. A paladin is a holy warrior that gets certain perks in exchange for serving the cause of his/her deity - being their right hand, the executor of their will. One of those perks is a "Found Steed" - a celestial/fey/fiendish spirit that, sent by the deity, assuming the form of some creature, and has intelligence (>=6) (thus a sentient NPC), with a telepathic link (with within a mile). Sooo, a non-paladin wants a "Found Steed"? Do they now? Ok. But, that comes with some baggage. The Found-Steed is a package deal - with a whole set of obligations. The obligations balance the perks. The non-paladin gets the steed, _and_ then also gets the baggage - they need to ACT LIKE A PALADIN OF DIETY X to some degree - and this is perfectly fine. How does this play out? Well, the Found-Steed will insist its owner serve the interests of deity X, live up to their standards, etc. The steed knows what the owner is thinking. So, suppose the owner steals something from a merchant. The steed, having been sent from a LG deity is itself LG. Because of the telepathic link, they know exactly what the owner did, and what they are thinking. The steed might refuse to take the owner anywhere until they go back to merchant and atone for their misconduct. The steed is a sentient NPC, and thus is ultimately controlled by the DM. The steed can rebel or refuse to serve the PC if the PC acts in a way incompatible with the wishes of the deity that sent the spirit that became the steed. The PC can not hide _anything_ from the steed because of the thought-sharing that goes on with the telepathic link (thats how I run the telepathic link - its literally like two minds, each knowing the thoughts of the other). This can become very much a "be careful what you wish for - you just might get it" scenario. Bottom line - if the PC wants a perk of the Paladin class - a Found Steed - and they want that steed to actually do as they ask and help them - then the PC must act like a paladin of the deity of the paladin that cast the Find Steed spell into the ring of Spell Storing (or Ioun Stone of Reserve).

So how would this play out in the end? Each PC is either going to have to adopt the same standards of conduct as the paladin that did the casting - in which, ok, fine, that is the price of the perk. Or, the PC will quickly get fed up with her/his Found Steed, and humorously, decide "screw this!!! I want a normal steed! One that won't judge me and lecture me all the time! Argggg!!!". Ha ha ha

See? No need for the DM to fret. These things work themselves out.

My one objection is, Paladins don't serve deities, they worship deities, but their power comes from their devotion to their oath. If a paladin's deity goes bad, the paladin can turn to a different one that holds ideals compatible with the oath, without loosing any power.

 

[Mistwell]

We got one of these rings. Gave it to our Warlock. We sometimes take a two hour short rest, the first for him to regain all his spells, then cast them into the ring, the second to regain all his spells. He now effectively has all those additional spell slots from the ring to add to his otherwise limited number of spell slots. the druid sometimes casts spells into it for him to increase the variety of spells he can cast. It's been helpful but not game breaking.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

It is about the only published way to get access to many spells that aren't on the class spell lists of anyone in the party. The other ways being wish and the thief's use magic device feature combined with scrolls/items that can create the spell.

Our 4th level party just got one from Forge of Fury. We're going to have someone cast revivify into it for us, because raising all-the-way-dead people is expensive and hard to do in our campaign.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I've just dished out one of these, but none of my players has tried to abuse it yet.

I have decided that if the paladin decides to put Summon Steed into it, it will always summon his steed, not steeds for everyone.

 

[Eltab]

My Arcane Trickster / Trickery Cleric in Yawning Portal got a Ring of Spell Storing and loaded it with 'Remove Status Condition' (AFB and forget the real name of the spell) to help deal with all the 'You touched something? Gotcha!' blind / deaf / paralyzed traps in these old modules.

If your group has a stay-at-home magic-user patron who keeps sending them out on dangerous quests, he could give them a Ring and re-load it from his spell-list between adventures.
- He might give them his brand-new attack spell some time, 'so he can find out how it works in the field'. (Mechanically, an upcast Fireball that does acid damage, but the PCs don't have to be told that beforehand.)
- Usually he might load it up with Cure/Heal/Restore spells.
- Planning to sneak into / out of somewhere? Load the ring with Pass Without Trace or a special spell to enhance Stealth checks.
- Several castings of Move Earth if he sends the group through a badlands / ravines / canyon / other difficult terrain.

 

[Greg31415]

With regard to the deity 'going bad' :

I as a DM have never run a game in which that mattered or was an issue. Operationally, it would never affect what I said about Found Steeds. Here is how I run Found Steeds as a DM: The "Find Steed" spell is basically a request to the deity for aid. Think of it like a soldier filling out a requisition form for a Humvee with mounted heavy weapons. The Deity sends one of their servants to serve the paladin to act as a warsteed - or, in this case, the caster of the spell. The Deity is the deity of the person that casts the Find Steed spell into the ring. The Celestial/Fey/Fiend-ish spirit that is sent is a servant of the deity, and thus generally one expects its mindset to match that of the original caster of the Find Steed spell. Think about, for example, one of the Valar sending a Maia that will assume the form of the steed. Or, if you prefer, consider a God sending an Angel. That Maia would of course be hobbled by the form it assumes, but with an Int >=6 it definitely knows wrong from right, and has a mind of its own. It has free will. It will generally not cooperate with the caster of the Find Steed spell if it sees that person - in its opinion - misbehaving. So, we still come back to the same thing - a Found Steed is part of being a Paladin. Want one? Sure - be - in some sense - a Paladin. That is, be a Paladin in outlook, motivations, actions if not a member of the actual class. Like I said, these things balance themselves.

What happens in the (extremely) unlikely event that the 'Deity goes bad'? Well, the spirit that is the Found Steed might rebel against that deity. Assuming the person whom they serve is behaving themselves (paladin or not), the bond between them tends to become extremely strong over time and shared hardship. However, what happens if a Deity 'goes bad' would probably play out in a way in which the class of the person would make little to no difference as far as the Found Steed is concerned.

 

[MattZenero]

From another thread:To be clear -- that quote is out of context. But it did get me thinking.How CAN we break a ring of spell storing? Any ideas for ridiculous combinations that this thing enables?

I think that a barbarian with a ring of spell storing that holds a 5th level shadowblade could be naughty word awesome! A shadow greatsword dealing 5d8 psychich damage + strength modifier + great weapon master?

Imagine a critical hit with that? 10d8 + strmod + great weapon master + as many brutal criticals this barbarian would have!

 

[MattZenero]

From another thread:To be clear -- that quote is out of context. But it did get me thinking.How CAN we break a ring of spell storing? Any ideas for ridiculous combinations that this thing enables?

I think that a barbarian with a ring of spell storing that holds a 5th level shadowblade could be naughty word awesome! A shadow greatsword dealing 5d8 psychich damage + strength modifier + great weapon master?

Imagine a critical hit with that? 10d8 + strmod + great weapon master + as many brutal criticals this barbarian would have!