D&D 5E Let's Have A Thread of Veteran GM Advice

[Shiroiken]

How do you stop rules lawyers and power gamers from ruining the game? Currently the only thing that works is booting them. Simply accepting the bad behavior isn’t an option. Neither is pretending it’s not bad behavior.

Rules lawyers can be dealt with by simply setting some ground rules. I allow one pitch for their "interpretation" of a rule, then make my summary judgement. Appeals must occur outside of game time, but it's unlikely they will sway me. The interpretation is the set as part of a set of rulings/houserules, preventing them from changing it later.

Power gamers can be more of a problem. If you have an entire group of power gamers, it works fine, since you can just up the difficulty of the game. However, if you have a single power gamer, they risk the fun of everyone else. Personally, I just let the power gamer have their fun, challenging the rest of the party instead. If the power gamer is a problem for the rest of the party, they'll get the boot.

How do you get players to stop expecting you to constantly feed them the plot? This is something the Alexandrian talked about. So many players have been lead around by the nose for so long they don’t seem to get there’s any other way to play. What do you do to break the players of this habit? And no, simply leading them around by the nose isn’t an option.

Some players prefer to be railroaded. It's just their preference, and was addressed as the "Watcher" player type back in 4E. A full group of them is definitely a problem, one I've never experienced. The only suggestion I would have would be to talk to the group and drop numerous plot hooks, asking the players which ones they're interesting in following up on. This at least puts some direction in their hands, while allowing them to remain fairly passive.

 

[DEFCON 1]

How do you get players to stop expecting you to constantly feed them the plot? This is something the Alexandrian talked about. So many players have been lead around by the nose for so long they don’t seem to get there’s any other way to play. What do you do to break the players of this habit? And no, simply leading them around by the nose isn’t an option.

The hard part of answering something like this will be down to the type of game the table plays. Because my initial response from my perspective is that one doesn't need to hand out "plot" for them to follow... one can simply give out "plot hooks" and let them decide for themselves which ones to follow. But of course the problem with even an answer like this is if the table of players doesn't want to (or is unable to) either notice these hooks and act on them, or come to a consensus on which ones are intriguing, then you have a roadblock to try and get them to jump over. So while my answer would make sense for a more proactive type of table... if one's table is completely passive... even handing out juicy plot hooks might not work.

So how do you get that type of table to start trying to do it? It might just need to be something as simple and as bland as the old "Job Board"-- the board in front of the town hall with all the "plot hooks" posted right there for the group to see and then the DM just sits on their hands and waits for the table to decide to do one. If one puts the idea of seeing plot hooks, choosing one, and then following through on it... tables can become more used to that idea and concept... and then they may start noticing plot hooks out in the world you insert that don't have to be sign-posted as such. The table follows a Job Board posting to find a wagon rumored to be stolen by goblins, then at the end of the goblin hideout the dwarven captive they rescue tells the party his brothers went looking for a lost mine of rumored magical power and treasure and haven't been heard from since, and that he has a map. Here's now a new plot hook that they can choose to follow (or not), and their adventures can continue.

EDIT Now having said this... because I do not know how you specifically dungeonmaster, I cannot say whether or not the scenario I gave above would or would not fall into your specific ideas of what "feeding them plot" might be. Maybe what I've said above in your mind IS "feeding them plot" and you don't want to do that... in which case of course my examples don't serve you. If that's the case, then feel free to ignore me. But I don't know another useful answer then, as I could consider the dangling of plothooks to not be a bad thing with which to avoid, but part and parcel with giving out adventuring information.

 

[FrozenNorth]

One thing I still struggle with after all of these years is finding a concise but effective way to note the PC abilities. I believe that in an ongoing campaign, the DM should at least no and sometimes even cater to the mechanics of the PCs -- because those mechanics, the things the players chose, tells you as DM a lot about what they are looking for in play. I am fine with the broad strokes and character motivations and personalities. Where I have trouble is thinking about specific abilities or classes of abilities that individual characters have. I want that information at hand when prepping or running so i can use it as a tool, but I don't know how to organize it and I am just not going to review character sheets all the time (especially with complex versions of the game like PF2 or 5E; Shadowdark is easier).

My trick: each time I start a new campaign, I begin a new notebook/binder. The first page is for tracking XP progression. In the next session, each PC gets exactly one side of a page to note details. Makes it easy to find when prepping. More importantly, since I started doing this, I find less and less information from the character sheet is necessary to include. Feats and features, especially the non-combat ones that aren’t used every session, get pride of place. Meanwhile, the weapon they use, the damage it does, can be skipped.

 

[Reynard]

My trick: each time I start a new campaign, I begin a new notebook/binder. The first page is for tracking XP progression. In the next session, each PC gets exactly one side of a page to note details. Makes it easy to find when prepping. More importantly, since I started doing this, I find less and less information from the character sheet is necessary to include. Feats and features, especially the non-combat ones that aren’t used every session, get pride of place. Meanwhile, the weapon they use, the damage it does, can be skipped.

Good idea. Since most of my gaming has moved online, my keeping paper notes has all but dried up and I think I need to change that.

 

[Quickleaf]

I’ve got a few.

How do you stop rules lawyers and power gamers from ruining the game? Currently the only thing that works is booting them. Simply accepting the bad behavior isn’t an option. Neither is pretending it’s not bad behavior.

Good question. I try to make them my allies, “I appreciate your rules expertise, and I may need to ask for clarification on a part of the rules, or for someone to look something up mid-game. Would you be willing to be my rules helper? That would help the game go smoother. The only guideline I have is that if we have a difference of interpretation, it must be handled out of game, so to keep the game running smoothly I will make an on-the-fly ruling then we can discuss after or between games. Is that something you can agree to?”

This ally approach worked for me with two rules lawyers…but a third was unrepentant and fortunately we don’t game together anymore. It also makes a great screening question to suss out rules lawyers in a new group.

How do you get players to stop expecting you to constantly feed them the plot? This is something the Alexandrian talked about. So many players have been lead around by the nose for so long they don’t seem to get there’s any other way to play. What do you do to break the players of this habit? And no, simply leading them around by the nose isn’t an option.

Hah. I’ve had that group. I just accepted that, until I trained them out of it, there indeed would be a period of play that would be more linear than I liked. The “training” was to introduce clear meaningful choices that impacted the direction of the adventure in big ways that were felt within that same session & whose consequences I leaned into in later sessions.

Another trick I used was foils / rival adventuring parties who I’d either dial the complacency / “being led by the nose” up to 100 (these idiots do everything the king says without ever questioning! Oh…wait…), OR dial the feistiness / independence up to 100 (they did what? collapsed a dungeon? you can do that??).

 

[Umbran]

When your creativity is falling short, how do you create the bones of an interesting session when prepping?

"I am never forget the day
I first meet the great Lobachevsky
In one word he told me secret of success in mathematics: Plagiarize!

Plagiarize
Let no one else's work evade your eyes
Remember why the good Lord made your eyes
So don't shade your eyes
But plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize
Only be sure always to call it please 'research'."
-"Lobachevsky," by Tom Lehrer, who ironically made all his works public domain.

By which I mean, "Beg, borrow, or steal from any relevant source material available".

A while back, I was running Ashen Stars, which is a space opera mystery procedural game. But mysteries are hard to write. So, on a day I was stuck for an idea, and I didn't want to launch into the next published adventure I was planning to use, so I turned to one of the most famous mystery writers available - Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

I took the Sherlock Holmes story, "The Hound of the Baskervilles", and filed the serial numbers off - renamed characters, placed it on a swamp planet instead of the moors of England, used a swamp monster that was real instead of a demonic hound that was fiction, and I was off to the races!

 

[Lanefan]

Good question. I try to make them my allies, “I appreciate your rules expertise, and I may need to ask for clarification on a part of the rules, or for someone to look something up mid-game. Would you be willing to be my rules helper? That would help the game go smoother. The only guideline I have is that if we have a difference of interpretation, it must be handled out of game, so to keep the game running smoothly I will make an on-the-fly ruling then we can discuss after or between games. Is that something you can agree to?”

The only problem with that for me is that if the ruling you make on the fly doesn't set a binding precedent, or can be overturned later, you risk invalidating play that took place after the later-changed ruling. And you open the door to later arguments.

In a short campaign it might not be a big deal, but in long campaigns like what I run whatever ruling I make right now is something we'll have to live with for years; and so my take instead is to as far as possible try to get it right the first time, even if it means a mid-session discussion and-or me thinking about it for a few minutes and then just putting my foot down.

 

[Quickleaf]

The only problem with that for me is that if the ruling you make on the fly doesn't set a binding precedent, or can be overturned later, you risk invalidating play that took place after the later-changed ruling. And you open the door to later arguments.

In a short campaign it might not be a big deal, but in long campaigns like what I run whatever ruling I make right now is something we'll have to live with for years; and so my take instead is to as far as possible try to get it right the first time, even if it means a mid-session discussion and-or me thinking about it for a few minutes and then just putting my foot down.

For sure, there are good times to be firm. It’s pretty personal too & group specific. For me, nothing kills my joy in a ttrpg like pausing to discuss rules. But I know plenty of folks who’d enjoy getting into it right then and there.

 

[Reynard]

For sure, there are good times to be firm. It’s pretty personal too & group specific. For me, nothing kills my joy in a ttrpg like pausing to discuss rules. But I know plenty of folks who’d enjoy getting into it right then and there.

I am running a Pathfinder 2ER game specifically to learn the rules and we pause whenever something new comes up and we want to know how it is supposed to work. I wouldn't be able to stand this in a different style of game, but the goal is to sacrifice the time and pacing now in order to be able to "just play" in the future.

 

[CleverNickName]

The best advice I can give as a veteran Dungeon Master of 35 years and counting: don't be afraid to delegate stuff to your players. Fill-in-the-blank descriptions for things like rooms, monsters, treasures, even magic items can go a long way to making everyone at the table feel more creative and engaged, and save you a lot of time and effort trying to dream up stuff on the fly. If your players are eager to participate; let them.

DM: "The hinges groan with the weight of the years, as Sir Biffleboff carefully opens the chest. Peering inside, you see a glittering silver weapon resting on a pillow of silk. Sir Biffleboff--what kind of weapon is it?"
Kevin: "Oooo, it's a war pick! I need a war pick for my build."
DM: "War pick, excellent. Go on then, describe it for us."
Kevin: "Um, the war pick is made of steel, with bronze and copper inlay on the head in a knotwork pattern. The name 'Bloodspike' has been engraved in Dwarven runes along the handle."
DM: "Perfect. Bloodspike is a +1 war pick that sheds light as a torch on command."