D&D 5E Let's Have A Thread of Veteran GM Advice

[damiller]

one of the things that has really liberated my prep time is leading questions. in my profession (teaching/social work/counseling) those are often a no no. But for a GM they are perfect since they mostly require just a yes/no, and can then prompt the players into new directions with almost no effort by the gm!

 

[Fanaelialae]

How do you get players to stop expecting you to constantly feed them the plot? This is something the Alexandrian talked about. So many players have been lead around by the nose for so long they don’t seem to get there’s any other way to play. What do you do to break the players of this habit? And no, simply leading them around by the nose isn’t an option.

I write a handout with rumors in between sessions. Some are true, some aren't.

I used to just have it that these were rumors they heard around town. More recently I've been using invisible, incorporeal fey I call Mungers. These little pests basically feed off of sharing gossip, and can go basically anywhere and overhear anything, so they make it easier to share interesting rumors without requiring justification.

Investigating rumors is, of course, up to the players. Some they ignore. Some they only take notice of when they come across something in game that correlates. And I've had some really fun sessions where investigating a false rumor lead to a crazy adventure.

I'd recommend against dud rumors (the investigation of which will lead nowhere and just frustrate the players) if you want to encourage them to take initiative with rumors. Rumors should generally lead to something, even if it's something completely unexpected.

 

[overgeeked]

Thanks for the advice everyone. But I think I didn't communicate the problem that well.

I run open-world sandbox games. So dropping rumors/hooks/jobs into the PCs' laps and letting them pick isn't the problem. Getting them to pick one also isn't really the problem. It's what comes next.

The players take up the rumor/hook/job and ask a few initial questions, I provide the answers, point them clearly to some next possible steps, then they largely seem to just falter and stop dead. The fact that they have options seems to confuse them. That there isn't one blinking neon sign pointing to an obvious right choice puts them into analysis paralysis. They're looking for the rails when there aren't any, and the fact that they can't find them causes them to freeze.

I had one group talk themselves into a dead end they'd decided was the only possible option and when I communicated to them that nothing was happening in the location, instead of rethinking or adjusting at all, they literally just sat down and waited for the plot to come to them. At a later point the same group decided they wanted to talk to an NPC. When I told them the NPC was out of town and wouldn't be back for a day or two, they decided to just hold up in the inn where he was staying and waited. Legit refused to do anything else both times. There were other hooks, other rumors, other NPCs or locations they could visit or investigate, other angles they could check out for the same rumor/hook/job...but they noped out.

Now, while I recognize the "hurry up and wait" group is uniquely bad, a lot of other groups I've run for still get caught up in the analysis paralysis I talk about in the third paragraph. I'm a fan of the Alexandrian blog, so I pepper redundant clues throughout, with multiple clues pointing to the same conclusion. I've also run CoC for decades, so the mystery element isn't a problem. I know better than to lock things behind one roll or check. I know better than to use red herrings. I don't devise overly complicated stuff. I love Return of the Lazy Dungeon Master, so I'm fine with moving clues to wherever the PCs are. I'm also far more of an improv referee so I have no problem just following the PCs wherever they go.

The trouble is, after a few choices...they just freeze. They're looking for the tracks and the fact that they can't find them stops them dead. I've been running and playing RPGs almost 40 years now and, in my experience, this is a uniquely 5E player thing. I've never had this issue with any other game or any other edition of D&D. It literally never happened until running 5E.

 

[Reynard]

I write a handout with rumors in between sessions. Some are true, some aren't.
...
I'd recommend against dud rumors (the investigation of which will lead nowhere and just frustrate the players) if you want to encourage them to take initiative with rumors. Rumors should generally lead to something, even if it's something completely unexpected.

So what do you do with false rumors to make sure they aren't "duds"?

 

[MNblockhead]

One thing I still struggle with after all of these years is finding a concise but effective way to note the PC abilities. I believe that in an ongoing campaign, the DM should at least no and sometimes even cater to the mechanics of the PCs -- because those mechanics, the things the players chose, tells you as DM a lot about what they are looking for in play. I am fine with the broad strokes and character motivations and personalities. Where I have trouble is thinking about specific abilities or classes of abilities that individual characters have. I want that information at hand when prepping or running so i can use it as a tool, but I don't know how to organize it and I am just not going to review character sheets all the time (especially with complex versions of the game like PF2 or 5E; Shadowdark is easier).

I run games on a VTT, Foundry specifically. There are a number of mods that allow you to display PC stats in a variety of formats. I've also had a PC page on my DM screen where I would have often referenced notes on PCs.

While this is very helpful for quickly referencing AC, passive checks, and other stats, I found it has the downsize of making me look over their character sheets as often. Much of what will determine encounter and challenge difficulties, and much of the inspiration of giving PCs opportunities to shine and hook their backgroungs into the adventures is in the abilities, spells, equipment, and background notes. I make a point of taking a look at all of the PCs character sheets as I prepare for each session. I use the tools and references for quick lookups during a session, but getting in the habit of reviewing the PC character sheets during session prep is often a great source of inspiration.

 

[MNblockhead]

When your creativity is falling short, how do you create the bones of an interesting session when prepping?

All of the advice given by others is great. I'll only add that the setting and adventure material you use, can make a big difference. One things I've come to love about the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 4e books is all of the adventure-hook call outs that they place throughout their setting and adventure material.

 

[MNblockhead]

How do you stop rules lawyers and power gamers from ruining the game? Currently the only thing that works is booting them. Simply accepting the bad behavior isn’t an option. Neither is pretending it’s not bad behavior.

Empower them to engage in what is obviously important to them but guiding the behavior in more positive ways. For example, I'm rather pro rules lawyering. I lean on my players a lot to help me with rules. Let the rules lawyer make their case. But as the GM, I'm the judge and make the final decision. If they can't abide by that and will not let it go if they are over-ruled, that is more of a social issue. Or if you play in a group that really doesn't care much about the rules and hate any discussion of the rules, then the rules lawyer is likely just a bad fit for the group. If they can't adopt to the table etiquette of your game, you'll likely have to boot them or risk other players leaving and the game falling apart.

I don't have much advice regarding power gamers. I don't see them as a problem unless they are telling other players how to build and play their characters. This is just a group fit issue. In a group of power gamers, the casual player may be the bad fit. In a group that cares for the story and could care less about optimizing builds and tactics, the power gamer will be a bad fit. Best to recognize that and have a candid discussion with the player who is not fitting in with the rest of the group.

 

[MNblockhead]

So what do you do with false rumors to make sure they aren't "duds"?

Some false rumors should be duds.

Chasing false rumors can lead to fantastic story opportunities. But I think for that to happen, some of the false rumors have to lead quickly to obvious dead ends or players quickly learning they are false. That way, that gives opportunities for some false rumors to gain legs. You don't want every false rumor to lead to hours or sessions of activity only to turn out to be false. That will get frustrating for many groups who feel they just wasted their time. Giving false rumors legs should be used sparingly.

Also, be open to making some false rumors true. There have been times where the players conjectures and their interest in a false rumor have spun into better adventures than what I originally had planned.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

You can take the JJ Abrams approach.

Throw in something completely random and weird, such as a polar bear in the jungle. Listen to the players' wild theories. Pick the one you like best and make it true. Delighted Players "I can't believe we worked it out!".

You can do the same with rumours. If the players find one particularly interesting, make it lead somewhere. The players are telling you what kind of adventure they are interested in.

And frankly, if the players want an "on rails" adventure, give them one. Some folk just want to fight monsters and be told a story after a hard day at work. They don't want to have to turn their brains on.

 

[Shardstone]

Thanks for the advice everyone. But I think I didn't communicate the problem that well.

I run open-world sandbox games. So dropping rumors/hooks/jobs into the PCs' laps and letting them pick isn't the problem. Getting them to pick one also isn't really the problem. It's what comes next.

The players take up the rumor/hook/job and ask a few initial questions, I provide the answers, point them clearly to some next possible steps, then they largely seem to just falter and stop dead. The fact that they have options seems to confuse them. That there isn't one blinking neon sign pointing to an obvious right choice puts them into analysis paralysis. They're looking for the rails when there aren't any, and the fact that they can't find them causes them to freeze.

I had one group talk themselves into a dead end they'd decided was the only possible option and when I communicated to them that nothing was happening in the location, instead of rethinking or adjusting at all, they literally just sat down and waited for the plot to come to them. At a later point the same group decided they wanted to talk to an NPC. When I told them the NPC was out of town and wouldn't be back for a day or two, they decided to just hold up in the inn where he was staying and waited. Legit refused to do anything else both times. There were other hooks, other rumors, other NPCs or locations they could visit or investigate, other angles they could check out for the same rumor/hook/job...but they noped out.

Now, while I recognize the "hurry up and wait" group is uniquely bad, a lot of other groups I've run for still get caught up in the analysis paralysis I talk about in the third paragraph. I'm a fan of the Alexandrian blog, so I pepper redundant clues throughout, with multiple clues pointing to the same conclusion. I've also run CoC for decades, so the mystery element isn't a problem. I know better than to lock things behind one roll or check. I know better than to use red herrings. I don't devise overly complicated stuff. I love Return of the Lazy Dungeon Master, so I'm fine with moving clues to wherever the PCs are. I'm also far more of an improv referee so I have no problem just following the PCs wherever they go.

The trouble is, after a few choices...they just freeze. They're looking for the tracks and the fact that they can't find them stops them dead. I've been running and playing RPGs almost 40 years now and, in my experience, this is a uniquely 5E player thing. I've never had this issue with any other game or any other edition of D&D. It literally never happened until running 5E.

You need to stop offering options after they pick one. Collapse into a semi-linear line then open back up into choices for that plot hook.