Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Stalker0 said:
Their education has been neglected.
-Hyp.
D&D 4E Let's Make 4E!! (Brainstorming)
- Thread starter Stalker0
- Start date
Their education has been neglected.
-Hyp.
Kemrain
First Post
Davelozzi said:
My GM's had to throw Cr out the window because we play in a game where magic is rare. I couldn't agree more, magic treasure is built into the expected power level of the game. I'd like to see this done away with entirely. I'm afraid I have no idea how to do this, however.
- Kemrain the Disapointed.
Hjorimir
Adventurer
Ah, I was unclear on number one. You probably should have said magic items as opposed to just magic. I will concede with the position that having a CR system assuming a given amount of magic items dictates a magical economy (one that many DMs don't care for).
The only thing I can think of is going back to prior editions that had no concept of CR and it was the responsibility of the DM to determine what was an appropriate encounter for a given group of characters. But this isn't a change that can be ruled on (and besides, it does create a baseline for DMs who don't want to modify the flow of magic items). So just stop giving out so many magic items and adjust the encounters accordingly.
The only thing I can think of is going back to prior editions that had no concept of CR and it was the responsibility of the DM to determine what was an appropriate encounter for a given group of characters. But this isn't a change that can be ruled on (and besides, it does create a baseline for DMs who don't want to modify the flow of magic items). So just stop giving out so many magic items and adjust the encounters accordingly.
RangerWickett
Legend
I've recently reconsidered my position on 4e, thanks to the poor way some of the ideas I was interested in were handled in Unearthed Arcana. I was always a proponent of the 3-class system (warrior, expert, mage), but in UA the version was rather bland. Thus, I think that if we were to use a 3-class system in 4e, we would need to use that as the baseline, and then provide example classes that have flavor. Thus, we might have just three actual classes, but there'd be 12 different pre-developed classes to choose from.
Expert - Rogue, Bard, Sage, Artificer
Mage - Wizard, Priest, Druid, Psion
Warrior - Knight, Monk, Barbarian, Swashbuckler
I'm a fan of lowering the number of magic items. I don't like the one-shot things like potions and scrolls, because for a DM it's too much book-keeping to keep track of what dozens of dinky items the PCs have. I prefer for items to have more character-specific appeal, so that, instead of being necessary to defeat challenges, they're cool and . . . well, magical. I'd up the cost of magic items substantially, so that most treasure would be spent on mundane things, and so that the magic items you do get are more special.
Right now, magic items define the character in the way that you need magic items, and without your items, you're nothing. I'd rather have them define the character in the way that people might remember you for the one legendary item you have. I mean, in Legend Lore you never have a bard say, "Ah yes, this was one of the 38 hundred potions the great knight Gregor used."
As for skills, we need to reconsider what's realistic and what's good for the game. A +23 climb skill check will almost never matter, because by the time you have a skill check that high, your party can usually fly. Ditto with Jump, Swim, Balance, and even Hide and Move Silently. I'm not sure how they need to be changed, but make high skill modifiers be ridiculously good, so that they still have an impact even in the face of magic spells.
I mean, seriously, who needs Climb or Balance when you can fly? Maybe have Climb give a bonus to grapple checks, and Balance give a bonus to resist Trips and Bull Rushes?
Expert - Rogue, Bard, Sage, Artificer
Mage - Wizard, Priest, Druid, Psion
Warrior - Knight, Monk, Barbarian, Swashbuckler
I'm a fan of lowering the number of magic items. I don't like the one-shot things like potions and scrolls, because for a DM it's too much book-keeping to keep track of what dozens of dinky items the PCs have. I prefer for items to have more character-specific appeal, so that, instead of being necessary to defeat challenges, they're cool and . . . well, magical. I'd up the cost of magic items substantially, so that most treasure would be spent on mundane things, and so that the magic items you do get are more special.
Right now, magic items define the character in the way that you need magic items, and without your items, you're nothing. I'd rather have them define the character in the way that people might remember you for the one legendary item you have. I mean, in Legend Lore you never have a bard say, "Ah yes, this was one of the 38 hundred potions the great knight Gregor used."
As for skills, we need to reconsider what's realistic and what's good for the game. A +23 climb skill check will almost never matter, because by the time you have a skill check that high, your party can usually fly. Ditto with Jump, Swim, Balance, and even Hide and Move Silently. I'm not sure how they need to be changed, but make high skill modifiers be ridiculously good, so that they still have an impact even in the face of magic spells.
I mean, seriously, who needs Climb or Balance when you can fly? Maybe have Climb give a bonus to grapple checks, and Balance give a bonus to resist Trips and Bull Rushes?
Beard in the Sky
First Post
glass said:
It was 12 years between 2nd and 3rd wasn't it?
K'Plah Q'Houme
First Post
Why in the name of Christ do you think that we need a 4.0 ver? Can't we just house rule for what we need done different? The worst thing is, that if WoTC published 4.0 tommorrow I would have to buy the whole lot, and become even poorer than I am now.
AeroDm
First Post
It seems like a lot of waht people want in 4e was just given to them in Unearthed Arcana. I would assume that the release of UA made people think of all the cool options available and then the realization that UA isn't core (and thus isn't as perfect as a system designed with these in mind) made them dream of 4e. Is this right? Either way, I vote we ban all talks of 4e until next year. We all know it is coming out this decade, but give us a little reprieve.
And see where that got T$R.Beard in the Sky said:
Top three issues for me:
1) Decide whether to continue the emphasis on classic "adventuring" setups, ie dungeons, monsters, treasure
2) Decide which metagenre the core game should be aimed at
3) Regardless of metagenre, fix scaling issues so as to obviate the need for hacks like "epic-level" rules
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