D&D General Let's Talk About Dragons


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Celebrim

Legend
How do you like your dragons in D&D?


Unlike you, I do like small draconic creatures in the form of "drakes" which are diverse group of draconic creatures that are of lesser stature than the true dragons.
 

Voadam

Legend
In the five 5e games/campaigns I have run I used one dragon, but it was the whole center of that game.

In the last Pathfinder 1e game I ran I used the Reign of Winter Adventure Path so there was a tatzylwyrm (smaller beastie serpent dragon) in the first module and lots of foreshadowing and plot elements of a now deceased white dragon. In the second module there was a big white dragon descendant of the previous plot one which was good for narrative purposes. They fought it and got off a good ambush on it.

I enjoyed coming up with an in-game church theory that dragons are creatures of sin, so they are all greedy and slothful and so on, but reds are particularly wrathful, blues are particularly prideful, and so on throughout the chromatics. It worked out pretty well.
 

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
4e Dragons were less complex than 3e, since they didn't have spellcasting. 4e stat blocks usually only gave the critter what it needs to fight, the rest is for the DM to decide. One big change was that Dragons now had roles- some Dragons were heavy damage dealers, while others, such as the Blue, were infamous for being artillery skirmishers, not willing to land and melee until they've softened up their prey (but of course, nothing stopped them from strafing over and over until the party was dead, which led to a lot of complaints when DM's would use them that way).*

Another was that alignment was no longer a guarantee when dealing with a color of Dragon. That gold dragon could now be an opponent, and that red, an ally.

*This isn't really anything new, of course. A dragon played intelligently, using strategy and their environment/lair to their advantage, was always going to punch well above it's intended power level, while an idiot who drops in and melees with the group after a single breath might not get a second. I'm not sure exactly why, suddenly, 4e DM's were like "well rather than rp the dragon as arrogant and prideful, it's going to keep using the same tactic over and over until it wins", when ever other dragon fight I've witnessed tends to have "phases".
 

Oofta

Legend
In most campaigns, dragons are used rarely. When they are, I generally decide their behavior based on type and age.

As a general rule, PCs are far more likely to interact with young dragons than any other age category. Young dragons are still naive in many ways, prone to excesses and overconfident. Much like soldiers, there are old dragons, there are bold dragons but there are very few old bold dragons. The older a dragon, the less likely it is to be encountered because you're talking about intelligent creatures that have survived threats not only from adventurous humanoids but also other dragons.

A big reason I rarely use them is that if run intelligently they can be much more threatening than their CR indicates. They are not brutes who will land and duke it out with the PCs. They'll pick fights in terrain where they can fly in, breath fire and then disappear over the ridge. Rinse and repeat. They possibly switching up tactics to snatch up a PC only to fly a significant distance away or simply out of eyesight and then drop the hapless PC to their death. If you try to run away, their spies and allies (or just creatures cowed into cooperation) will slow you down and give away your position.

I did have a campaign that involved dragons recently, an ancient red dragon decided to go after a big prize, claim to be the reborn emperor of a fractured nation. Many of his elite troops were half dragons, monstrosities created for the sole purpose of being his shock troops. Funny thing is, the PCs never actually directly engaged this dragon cum emperor. Instead they found out that he had enslaved his own mother and was using her blood to create his troops. The PCs freed dear old mom and she took care of her son. Someday I'm going to have to revisit this story. :)
 

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
I am thinking about dragons again and rather than start a new thread I'll ask here:

How do you feel about the different takes on dragons in the different editions?

My favorite are the 2E dragons. They got such an awesome power boost, they went from the Basic/1E St George's Dragon to the city busting Smaug/Lodoss War type. I remember liking 3.x/PF dragons because they were big complex beasties, but 5E dragons left me cold until Fizban's came out. I am not familiar with how 4E handled dragons.
I fear I have little experience with 2e dragons, so I can't much speak on that.

3.x/PF dragons have the weight to throw around that befits their iconic status, but they are probably the most intense example of the 3rd edition engine's mechanically-overwrought nature. High level dragons make enormous numbers of attacks, often have half a dozen special abilites and spellcasting, and yet can be just as vulnerable to scry-n-fry or SoD/SoS against a well-prepared full caster.

4e made the "color doesn't determine alignment" thing canon--different dragon species have tendencies, but those tendencies don't strictly manifest all the same way. E.g., gold dragons view themselves as righteous, but that can be an incredibly dangerous, even villainous characteristic in a being that is nigh-immortal, incredibly powerful, and highly intelligent. They can become unfeeling tyrants who think what they're doing is for the best, more or less what TVTropes calls an "omniscient morality license," or aloof protectors that don't really like mortals but feel compelled to prevent threats to mortal lives.

Chromatic dragons are rather more likely to be evil than good, because (as the Monster Manual notes) they are the inheritors of Io's hubris, and there is a reason Pride was held to be the greatest of the deadly sins. But they can evolve into someone like late-era David Xanatos, or maybe some of the slowly-becoming-personable dragons from Shadowrun: sometimes jerks, but not overtly malicious and willing to help out when it's appropriate.

4e also introduced a concept I find absolutely delightful, catastrophic dragons. These are dragons who betrayed the side of the gods during the Dawn War, turning to the Primordials for protection; they have literally become living natural disasters. Which is just awesome. They aren't naturally good or evil, just really chaotic, because they've given themselves over to the raw power of the elements and exist mostly to consume and break things.

I am thinking about dragons again and rather than start a new thread I'll ask here:

How do you feel about the different takes on dragons in the different editions?

My favorite are the 2E dragons. They got such an awesome power boost, they went from the Basic/1E St George's Dragon to the city busting Smaug/Lodoss War type. I remember liking 3.x/PF dragons because they were big complex beasties, but 5E dragons left me cold until Fizban's came out. I am not familiar with how 4E handled dragons.
I fear I have little experience with 2e dragons, so I can't much speak on that.

3.x/PF dragons have the weight to throw around that befits their iconic status, but they are probably the most intense example of the 3rd edition engine's mechanically-overwrought nature. High level dragons make enormous numbers of attacks, often have half a dozen special abilites and spellcasting, and yet can be just as vulnerable to scry-n-fry or SoD/SoS against a well-prepared full caster.

4e made the "color doesn't determine alignment" thing canon--different dragon species have tendencies, but those tendencies don't strictly manifest all the same way. E.g., gold dragons view themselves as righteous, but that can be an incredibly dangerous, even villainous characteristic in a being that is nigh-immortal, incredibly powerful, and highly intelligent. They can become unfeeling tyrants who think what they're doing is for the best, more or less what TVTropes calls an "omniscient morality license," or aloof protectors that don't really like mortals but feel compelled to prevent threats to mortal lives.

Chromatic dragons are rather more likely to be evil than good, because (as the Monster Manual notes) they are the inheritors of Io's hubris, and there is a reason Pride was held to be the greatest of the deadly sins. But they can evolve into someone like late-era David Xanatos, or maybe some of the slowly-becoming-personable dragons from Shadowrun: sometimes jerks, but not overtly malicious and willing to help out when it's appropriate.

4e also introduced a concept I find absolutely delightful, catastrophic dragons. These are dragons who betrayed the side of the gods during the Dawn War, turning to the Primordials for protection; they have literally become living natural disasters. Which is just awesome. They aren't naturally good or evil, just really chaotic, because they've given themselves over to the raw power of the elements and exist mostly to consume and break things.

---

I've actually had a neat opportunity to do some "what if" stuff in my Dungeon World game that I'm kind of pleased about. Basically, the players are in a spot where an artifact has been accidentally misused, causing a "time crash" situation--reality itself is damaged, and things from the future or the past, or alternate timelines, are accidentally intersecting with the players' world. One thing they've come across is people who are very clearly gold half-dragons. These are clearly the possible future children of Shen and Hafsa, their friends, but the half-dragons looked haggard and worn and dirty--like they've been fighting hard in rough conditions. Spoopy alt-timeline stuff! But also showing that half-dragons (which, up to this point, they've only met one, and that was a Scary Bad Thing) can be at least plausibly benevolent.
 
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