Let's Talk Blue Rose

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

So, what I've gotten from this thread:

• Blue Rose has excellent mechanics.
• The kingdom is utopian simplicity ala Mercedes Lackey and Marion Zimmer
• It is either Good or Evil because a magic deer said so.
• Those who like the kingdom are good.
• Those who don't are intolerant and evil.
• Blue Rose guarentees flame filled fun for all for at least six months on boards.
• Green Ronin has created an excellent product that they are either using to get new gamers or brainwash everyone in vegan zombies.

You know, this game seems as if it will appeal to the females of the human species.

Don't a lot of gamers complain about the lack of female humans in the hobby?

So, if more women == good...

Why all the outrage?

I serious doubt that Green Ronin is going to get a credit line with Dial-a-thug so that they can send people to the houses of those who do not use the setting, or alter the setting, to beat them and tear up thier d20 books.

I'll admit, the setting (what I've read of it) doesn't appeal to me, but the rules do.

 

[Mallus]

I find this debate kinda odd for two reasons...

First, while Blue Rose is new, the fiction that inspires it isn't. People like Marion Zimmer Bradley and Jo Clayton have been doing this since the 70's, well before the likes of Mercedes Lackey... I don't recall seeing many threads in the book section decrying this sort of thing, which has been going on for decades.

And don't male writers like David Eddings count as 'romantic fantasists', too? It took 'a village' to raise Garion. And who was "right" more often, Belgarath or Polgara?

Second, why does romanticizing a "Scandanavian Liberal Paradise" --to borrow the NationStates label, albeit one with lesbians riding giant telepathic cats, seem to yank peoples chains more than romanticizing things like feudalism or race war?

What ever happned to the fine art of taking the things with a grain of salt? It's possible to enjoy Atlas Shrugged without agreeing with Rand's politcal philosophies, or like TNG without becoming an advocate of space-based socialism, or some pulp extravaganza complete with half-dressed jungle girls and/or space vixens without being a chauvanist pig...

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

I find this debate kinda odd for two reasons...

First, while Blue Rose is new, the fiction that inspires it isn't. People like Marion Zimmer Bradley and Jo Clayton have been doing this since the 70's, well before the likes of Mercedes Lackey... I don't recall seeing many threads in the book section decrying this sort of thing, which has been going on for decades.

And don't male writers like David Eddings count as 'romantic fantasists', too? It took 'a village' to raise Garion. And who was "right" more often, Belgarath or Polgara?

And here we hit upon one of the many, many reasons I dislike almost all modern fantasy. It's not just Lackey and her lackies. Of course, I really didn't like the Lord of the Rings all that much, and I agree with most of what Tolkien stood for.

Second, why does romanticizing a "Scandanavian Liberal Paradise" --to borrow the NationStates label, albeit one with lesbians riding giant telepathic cats, seem to yank peoples chains more than romanticizing things like feudalism or race war?

Well, I'm pro-feudal in real life, so any positive light on feudalism and hereditary government in general is always welcome in my book. As for race war, aside from species competition (for example, orcs vs. humans), I'm not sure what RPG you're talking about.

The cats can stay, though. Giant telepathic cats are welcome in any right-thinking society, be it feudal or socialist.

What ever happned to the fine art of taking the things with a grain of salt? It's possible to enjoy Atlas Shrugged without agreeing with Rand's politcal philosophies, or like TNG without becoming an advocate of space-based socialism, or some pulp extravaganza complete with half-dressed jungle girls and/or space vixens without being a chauvanist pig...

Well, TNG's space-based socialism turned me off almost as fast as its spineless captaincy, but I somehow think the TOS vs. TNG debate belongs elsewhere.

 

[Emiricol]

I just thought it was a silly setting. Not particularly likely to overthrow our social order any time soon. A silly setting with interesting mechanics, though.

 

[Benben]

Am I the only one who's confused by the fact that Rape and Incest scenes appear to be a staple of the "romantic fantasy" genre in general and Lackey's novels in particular? And that this is marketed to a teen female audience? Anyone with a psychology degree care to explain it to me?

Anyways, just thought it was the moment to ask about something that's always perplexed me about "romantic fantasy"... i for one don't grasp the "romance" of incest or rape...

Nisarg

Frankly this boggles my mind too. Lackey, in particular, is terrible about this, I think more of her protaginists have been raped than those who have not. It's one of my biggest complaints about her as an author.

I have a theory about why it's used. It's a quick emotional trick to make the reader feel sympathy for the character. In more male dominated genres, like comic books, the cliche is to kill or maim the girlfriend of the protagonist. In a romance you have two equally important plote elements: the threat to the kingdom and the state of the primary relationship. Killing off the other partner in the primary relationship means that the protagonist has lost that struggle. Rape introduces pathos, and can give a difficulty in establishing or continuing the relationship. The cousin of this plote device would be the love triangle, or the love septagrams you see in some of the more crazy shounen manga.

 

[Crothian]

That's funny, I had the exact same thought.. I wonder what it is about Thieves World that makes us think BR would be good for it?

Nisarg

It is a lethal setting, lower magic, character oriented (so the extra feats would be great) but it also has enough wierd stuff that the extras from BR could apply.

 

[Lalato]

It is a lethal setting, lower magic, character oriented (so the extra feats would be great) but it also has enough wierd stuff that the extras from BR could apply.

Don't forget that Green Ronin is supposed to be developing a Thieves World RPG... so your dream of a BR mechanics based TW may come out in a more official form soon.

--sam

 

[Crothian]

Don't forget that Green Ronin is supposed to be developing a Thieves World RPG... so your dream of a BR mechanics based TW may come out in a more official form soon.

Trust me I know. I've been harping, yelling, bewgging, and bribing someone to do a TW setting for 6 straight years. I was thrilled when they announced it last year at Gen Con!!!

 

[Skywalker]

I'm not entirely certain that this is true.

There is no way to prove it for sure. However, both the size of the D&D market compared to the rest of the RPG industry and Wizards having the largest and most richly funded marketing and design teams in the RPG industry suggest that the market for the rule set in D&D3.5e is much larger than the rule set in BR.

 

[WayneLigon]

Don't forget that Green Ronin is supposed to be developing a Thieves World RPG... so your dream of a BR mechanics based TW may come out in a more official form soon.
--sam

I'll be interesting to see how they simulate the TW magic system(s). Can't wait. Reading the two new books got me ready for more TW goodness.