D&D 5E Level 1 Magic Item To Powerful?

[JonnyP71]

It is. THe older abilty was an outright 50% magic resistance to magic though. SOme spells do not have saves and being immune to magic half the time is still better than advantage on saves.

And no sane DM allowed a Paladin in their campaign to have a Holy Avenger until they were very high level and it was approaching the time to retire the character off!!! (source - 10 years of DMing 1st edition - and I made that mistake once!)

How much experience do you have of running 5E?

PCs are surprisingly powerful and resilient after they have survived the 1st couple of levels - they are capable of dealing with a lot more than a new DM would reasonably expect, even without access to magical weaponry.

 

[JonnyP71]

For whatever reason people and designers have got it into their head that more powerful magic items= higher level. Check fantasy and legends where newbs pull swords out of stones, or a Kai initiate retrieves the Sommerswerd(World of Lone Wolf). In d20 D&D that tends to break the game more as higher level PCs do not need the +3 or +5 weapons as much anyway and you can combo that stuff with feats etc. A +3 greatsword is more broken in 5E than a +3 dagger that can fire lightning bolts.

High level PCs should probably lose the items if anything.

If this is really your line of thinking them I'm afraid this thread is a pointless exercise. I'm out.

 

[Shadowdweller00]

For whatever reason people and designers have got it into their head that more powerful magic items= higher level. Check fantasy and legends where newbs pull swords out of stones, or a Kai initiate retrieves the Sommerswerd(World of Lone Wolf). In d20 D&D that tends to break the game more as higher level PCs do not need the +3 or +5 weapons as much anyway and you can combo that stuff with feats etc. A +3 greatsword is more broken in 5E than a +3 dagger that can fire lightning bolts.

You mean the LAST kai initiate - who happen to be the only ones capable of wielding that particular fabled weapon anyway - retrieves an artifact that was used to seal a military alliance so as to combat a nightmare invasion? You know, the same invasion that killed off all the other kai...

That's called a compelling plot reason. From a narrative perspective the author needs some reason why a lowly kai initiate can defeat AN ENTIRE ARMY of nightmare creatures while the kai masters couldn't. An army lead, by the way, by the present big bad in the world. Notwithstanding that, as originally conceived by author Joe Dever, Lone Wolf was the ONLY hero / PC appearing in his respective story; that is, there was no one else he might overshadow. No one else he needed to share the limelight with.

 

[Zardnaar]

And no sane DM allowed a Paladin in their campaign to have a Holy Avenger until they were very high level and it was approaching the time to retire the character off!!! (source - 10 years of DMing 1st edition - and I made that mistake once!)

How much experience do you have of running 5E?

PCs are surprisingly powerful and resilient after they have survived the 1st couple of levels - they are capable of dealing with a lot more than a new DM would reasonably expect, even without access to magical weaponry.

I have handed out a grand total of 2 holy avengers in 23 years of D&D. No one used them in 3E though because they were not really worth the money.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

Look to the rare flame tongue and very rare frost brand. Both add bonus damage (and other benefits) and neither are "plus" weapons.

Dagger of venom, dragon slayer, giant slayer, hammer of thunderbolts, and a big handful of others, that are plus weapons, are all "only" +1.

 

[aco175]

I like the idea of handing out a magic item to characters that is a career item early in play. In movies and shows this allows the young protagonist to go on and save the world. Lord of the Rings, even the D&D cartoon had these. I never really done it in actual play though. I do tend to give something cool in the early levels to each character, but these are only slightly more powerful than what they most likely should get at that level.

 

[CM]

To me, raw damage & extra attacks on a magic item is kind of boring. Depending on who made such a weapon and for what purpose, I'd have it do things like:

• Grant a speak with plants/animals ability
• Enhance the owner's senses
• Whisper to the owner when known enemies of nature are nearby, and grant extra damage against them
• Grant mobility (climbing, jumping, avoiding difficult terrain) in natural environments
• Grant enhanced tracking, or scent

That kind of stuff allows me as DM a lot more use in future story hooks. By making it wholly dependent on being in a forest, while limiting its power, you're also adding a point of contention for the player. They're going to be annoyed when not in a forest, and potentially dominating combat when in a forest. Depending on the player, they may feel they're being cheated if given a powerful item and then are only able to use it rarely.

"Wow, sorry Bob but we're going to be in the Underdark for the next 5 levels. Tough luck, eh?"


But back to the item as stated:

I don't like the idea of making the extra attack a bonus action, because then you're cheating dual-wielders a little. They won't be making their offhand attack in any round that they gain the item's free attack. I think the extra attack should be a part of the same action. Granted, they get a better attack in return than their offhand would have been, but they get less benefit compared to what a single-wielding character would.

I would agree with requiring attunement. In anyone else's hands it would just be a magic weapon or a +1 weapon.

 

[ccs]

I'd run it exactly as written.

Why?
Because how powerful it turns out to be is completely dependant upon you, the DM.

 

[ccs]

And no sane DM allowed a Paladin in their campaign to have a Holy Avenger until they were very high level and it was approaching the time to retire the character off!!! (source - 10 years of DMing 1st edition - and I made that mistake once!).

So you base this assertion about when a Holy Avenger should be allowed on your own inability to DM at the time?

Holy Avenger, awesome item x, Wish, etc. Whatever it is it's just more story potential.

 

[DeanP]

I've done similar things in the past. I sometimes like the idea of the characters and stories in which a character begins with an "ancestral heirloom" or find a potent magic item that they use throughout the campaign arc. I never liked the idea of a magic weapon becoming obsolete because you find a better item several levels later. It's why I really like what 5e did with magic items a and especially magic weapons. The weapon you described, would be something akin to Excalibur, Stormbringer, Narsil, etc. I think it can work.

If you feel you need to lessen the early benefits, have conditions that must be met to achieve the full properties of the weapon ( a ritual, the slaying of a specific beast, a blessing by a specific being, the insertion of magic gems into the hilt, etc). Maybe it starts as a +1 weapon, but if some specific conditions are met, it can improve to +2 and then +3.