Hawk Diesel
Adventurer
Also I thought of something that might work for master duelist. You could make the ability something along the lines of any target you deal damage to has disadvantage on attacks against you until the start of your next turn.
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Level 20 Capstone Abilities
- Thread starter Hawk Diesel
- Start date
Eddie Blanton
First Post
Regarding the Fighter, I would use the following capstone in addition to the fourth attack:
Superior Fighting Style
Beginning at 20th level, you gain mastery over a particular style of fighting. Choose one of the following options.
~ Master Marksman
Your mastery of bows becomes unparalleled. You gain +2 to damage rolls made with ranged weapons. In addition, when you take the attack action using a ranged weapon, you can make one additional attack with the same ranged weapon using your bonus action.
~ Stalwart Defender
Your stout armor makes you an iron fortress. While wearing medium or heavy armor, you can use your reaction to gain +5 AC until the start of your next turn. In addition, you gain resistance from attacks that deal piercing, bludgeoning, or slashing damage while wearing medium or heavy armor.
~ Titan Grip
Your intense martial prowess allows you to wield large weapons in a single hand. All melee weapons in your hands gain the light property while wielded by you. In addition, you ignore the heavy and two-handed properties of melee weapons.
The Fighter gains all of its damage from sustained passive abilities. These options build upon the Fighting Styles the player selected at 1st level (or 10th for the Champion). If you take a close look, Master Marksman enhances Archery, and Titan Grip enhances either Great Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Fighting, or Dueling. Stalwart Defender enhances Defense or Protection.
Superior Fighting Style
Beginning at 20th level, you gain mastery over a particular style of fighting. Choose one of the following options.
~ Master Marksman
Your mastery of bows becomes unparalleled. You gain +2 to damage rolls made with ranged weapons. In addition, when you take the attack action using a ranged weapon, you can make one additional attack with the same ranged weapon using your bonus action.
~ Stalwart Defender
Your stout armor makes you an iron fortress. While wearing medium or heavy armor, you can use your reaction to gain +5 AC until the start of your next turn. In addition, you gain resistance from attacks that deal piercing, bludgeoning, or slashing damage while wearing medium or heavy armor.
~ Titan Grip
Your intense martial prowess allows you to wield large weapons in a single hand. All melee weapons in your hands gain the light property while wielded by you. In addition, you ignore the heavy and two-handed properties of melee weapons.
The Fighter gains all of its damage from sustained passive abilities. These options build upon the Fighting Styles the player selected at 1st level (or 10th for the Champion). If you take a close look, Master Marksman enhances Archery, and Titan Grip enhances either Great Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Fighting, or Dueling. Stalwart Defender enhances Defense or Protection.
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Aldarc
Legend
My contribution to this thread is admittedly more tangential. But it seems that 5E's class structure, particularly in regards to the "Capstone," may have benefited from providing the classes in several choices for a Capstone instead of a singular Capstone. (A number of classes in Pathfinder, for example, seemed to have moved in this direction.) When we look at the Archdruid Capstone, for example, though this benefits the Land Druid, it provides a much greater benefit to the Moon Druid. So the Land Druid could have, perhaps, been provided with an alternative choice for Capstone. Having choices for Capstones would have also permitted players a greater sense for establishing what their crowning achievement or playstyle would entail. If a cleric player does not use Divine Intervention much, they may feel less enthused about the Capstone. However, if the cleric player likes using Channel Divinity, then having the choice of a Capstone that greatly expanded that ability would certainly be more beneficial.
Hawk Diesel
Adventurer
Wow. Never expected this thread to get necro'ed.
[MENTION=6880293]Eddie Blanton[/MENTION] I really like your Stalwart Defender ability, and Peerless Archer is ok (though especially in comparison to Stalwart Defender seems a bit weaker). But I agree with [MENTION=5142]Aldarc[/MENTION] that more choices/options are better. Titan Grip does not really provide any benefit to Great Weapon Fighting, and in fact may by raw negate the fighting style since I believe it requires you to use a 2-handed or heavy weapon to benefit from Great Weapon Fighting. Titan Grip is way more beneficial to two weapon fighters. But also, it creates a sudden change that doesn't make thematic sense. If you spent your whole career dual wielding long swords, and then you suddenly are dual wielding halberds or greatswords, that just doesn't really flow.
Rather I like Titan Grip, but I think it would be best specific to Great Weapon Fighters and the ability would double their weapon damage dice, simulating their weapons being effectively treated as of they were a large creature.
[MENTION=6880293]Eddie Blanton[/MENTION] I really like your Stalwart Defender ability, and Peerless Archer is ok (though especially in comparison to Stalwart Defender seems a bit weaker). But I agree with [MENTION=5142]Aldarc[/MENTION] that more choices/options are better. Titan Grip does not really provide any benefit to Great Weapon Fighting, and in fact may by raw negate the fighting style since I believe it requires you to use a 2-handed or heavy weapon to benefit from Great Weapon Fighting. Titan Grip is way more beneficial to two weapon fighters. But also, it creates a sudden change that doesn't make thematic sense. If you spent your whole career dual wielding long swords, and then you suddenly are dual wielding halberds or greatswords, that just doesn't really flow.
Rather I like Titan Grip, but I think it would be best specific to Great Weapon Fighters and the ability would double their weapon damage dice, simulating their weapons being effectively treated as of they were a large creature.
Eddie Blanton
First Post
Titan Grip allows a Great Weapon Fighter to dual wield two-handed weapons. These two fighting styles give the player +13.65 damage on average (if using a 2d6 weapon). Providing a total of 61.65 damage per turn. See the link below:
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/quest...age-does-great-weapon-fighting-add-on-average
Titan Grip allows someone who has been two weapon fighting to upgrade to two two-handed weapons. These two fighting styles give the player +12.5 damage (if they have a modifier of 5). Providing a total of 60 damage per turn.
Titan Grip allows a Dueler to upgrade to a two-handed weapon. These two fighting styles give the player +8 (average) damage and +2 AC from their shield. Providing 56 damage per turn.
Master Marksman allows a Archer to make a fifth attack with their bonus action (a full attack. These two fighting styles give the player +14.5 damage (if using a longbow). Providing 57.5 damage per turn.
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/quest...age-does-great-weapon-fighting-add-on-average
Titan Grip allows someone who has been two weapon fighting to upgrade to two two-handed weapons. These two fighting styles give the player +12.5 damage (if they have a modifier of 5). Providing a total of 60 damage per turn.
Titan Grip allows a Dueler to upgrade to a two-handed weapon. These two fighting styles give the player +8 (average) damage and +2 AC from their shield. Providing 56 damage per turn.
Master Marksman allows a Archer to make a fifth attack with their bonus action (a full attack. These two fighting styles give the player +14.5 damage (if using a longbow). Providing 57.5 damage per turn.
Hawk Diesel
Adventurer
Yes, from a min-maxer's perspective, this would be a solid option. But thematically, it doesn't make sense. A fighter spends his whole life wielding a single large weapon, and now all of a sudden, they start wielding TWO large weapons because reasons. Not to mention, it requires a bonus action to effectively dual wield. If you spend your whole career with a bonus action available, you are probably going to find ways to maximize how you use it. Now, all of a sudden at level 20, a player that has never dual wielded will dramatically change their tactics they've been using all this time.
So yes, this capstone ability might work for a certain kind of player. But I think the mechanics can be worked to create an ability that is not only as powerful as a level 20 capstone ability should be, but also has some semblance of building upon what that player has already been doing for their adventuring career.
Once again, this ability could work, and from a thematic perspective does not deviate from a player's play-style as much as Titan Grip does for Great Weapon Fighters. Going from longswords to greatswords is within the realm. But from my perspective (and I understand this is totally my opinion) I see dual wielding fighters as favoring speed and setting up a flurry of attacks over brute strength. In this way, I think it is more fitting thematically for a dual wielding fighter to get more attacks rather than use heavier weapons.
The same argument goes for the duelist. They seem more like finesse fighters to begin with. Of course, I can see the case/desire to have a duelist using a heavier weapon. But this also brings up the possibility of what happens if that fighter has already gotten a decently powerful rapier or whatever. Perhaps it has become their signature weapon of sorts, or they worked hard to acquire it. Now, in order to maximize their damage potential and utilize their capstone ability, they have to ditch that weapon and find a new one that is hopefully at least as powerful.
What if the archer in question went with the UA Archer archetype? They basically already have that ability. Also, as I believe I mention earlier in my posts which explain my reasoning and design philosophy, a capstone ability to feel special. Doing another attack and adding a +2 to damage is mechanically sound perhaps, but I would also argue it's a little boring. Level 20 characters are EPIC. They do things that would blow the minds of weaker individuals. Especially if you compare Peerless Archer with something like Divine Intervention in which you can know God on a personal enough level that you can ask him a favor and he does it!
Eddie Blanton
First Post
@Hawk Diesel thanks for the feedback. I made some changes to the Superior Fighting Styles to bring them in-line, balance them among themselves, and add a few more options for players looking for a different experience:
This is in addition to the fourth attack the Fighter gains at 20th level.
Superior Fighting Style (New)
Beginning at 20th level, you gain mastery over a particular style of fighting. Choose one of the following options.
Master Marksman
Your mastery of bows becomes unparalleled. You gain the following benefits:
~ You gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls made with ranged weapons.
~ When an enemy within your range that you can see attacks one of your allies, you can use your reaction to make one ranged attack against that enemy.
~ Any ranged attack that hits a creature behind three-quarters cover is treated as a critical hit.
~ You can use your bonus action to move up to half your movement speed. This movement doesn’t provoke opportunity attacks.
Stalwart Defender
Your stout armor makes you an iron fortress. While wearing medium or heavy armor you gain the following benefits:
~ When you are hit by an attack, you can use your reaction to gain a +5 bonus to your AC until the start of your next turn, including against the triggering attack.
~ You gain resistance to piercing, bludgeoning, and slashing damage.
~ If a spell or similar magical effect would normally move you against your will, you can use your reaction to reduce the movement by up to 20 feet.
Titan Grip
Your intense martial prowess allows you to wield large weapons in a single hand. You gain the following benefits:
~ All melee weapons in your hands gain the light property while wielded by you.
~ You ignore the heavy and two-handed properties of melee weapons.
~ You cannot be disarmed against your will unless you are unconscious.
~ Once per turn, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can force the creature to make a Strength saving throw (DC = 8 + your proficiency + your Strength modifier). On a failed save the creature suffers the attack’s normal effects, and is also knocked prone.
Relentless Attacker
You gain the following benefits while wielding two weapons:
~ You gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls made with melee weapons.
~ When you take the attack action on your turn, you can use your bonus action to make two melee weapon attacks with your off-hand, instead of one.
~ When you take the attack action on your turn, you can choose to forgo your normal attacks to instead make a sweeping attack that hits every target within 5 feet of you. Make a separate attack roll for each target. You do not provoke opportunity attacks from creatures you hit with your sweeping attack until the start of your next turn.
Weaponmaster
You gain the following benefits while wielding a melee weapon in one hand, and no other weapons:
~ You gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls made with melee weapons.
~ If an enemy makes an attack against you and misses, you can use your reaction to force the creature to attack another target within range.
~ On your turn, If all of your attacks made using the attack action are against the same target and score a hit, then your last attack is treated as a critical hit.
What do you think of these changes? Damage is actually more inline, the options have been increased, and flavorful abilities have been added. Let me know if you have any other thoughts.
This is in addition to the fourth attack the Fighter gains at 20th level.
Superior Fighting Style (New)
Beginning at 20th level, you gain mastery over a particular style of fighting. Choose one of the following options.
Master Marksman
Your mastery of bows becomes unparalleled. You gain the following benefits:
~ You gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls made with ranged weapons.
~ When an enemy within your range that you can see attacks one of your allies, you can use your reaction to make one ranged attack against that enemy.
~ Any ranged attack that hits a creature behind three-quarters cover is treated as a critical hit.
~ You can use your bonus action to move up to half your movement speed. This movement doesn’t provoke opportunity attacks.
Stalwart Defender
Your stout armor makes you an iron fortress. While wearing medium or heavy armor you gain the following benefits:
~ When you are hit by an attack, you can use your reaction to gain a +5 bonus to your AC until the start of your next turn, including against the triggering attack.
~ You gain resistance to piercing, bludgeoning, and slashing damage.
~ If a spell or similar magical effect would normally move you against your will, you can use your reaction to reduce the movement by up to 20 feet.
Titan Grip
Your intense martial prowess allows you to wield large weapons in a single hand. You gain the following benefits:
~ All melee weapons in your hands gain the light property while wielded by you.
~ You ignore the heavy and two-handed properties of melee weapons.
~ You cannot be disarmed against your will unless you are unconscious.
~ Once per turn, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can force the creature to make a Strength saving throw (DC = 8 + your proficiency + your Strength modifier). On a failed save the creature suffers the attack’s normal effects, and is also knocked prone.
Relentless Attacker
You gain the following benefits while wielding two weapons:
~ You gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls made with melee weapons.
~ When you take the attack action on your turn, you can use your bonus action to make two melee weapon attacks with your off-hand, instead of one.
~ When you take the attack action on your turn, you can choose to forgo your normal attacks to instead make a sweeping attack that hits every target within 5 feet of you. Make a separate attack roll for each target. You do not provoke opportunity attacks from creatures you hit with your sweeping attack until the start of your next turn.
Weaponmaster
You gain the following benefits while wielding a melee weapon in one hand, and no other weapons:
~ You gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls made with melee weapons.
~ If an enemy makes an attack against you and misses, you can use your reaction to force the creature to attack another target within range.
~ On your turn, If all of your attacks made using the attack action are against the same target and score a hit, then your last attack is treated as a critical hit.
What do you think of these changes? Damage is actually more inline, the options have been increased, and flavorful abilities have been added. Let me know if you have any other thoughts.
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Hawk Diesel
Adventurer
I like where you're going with many of these. Btw, I just realized this is your 3rd post on the forums. WELCOME!!!
Personally, I give fighter's their fourth attack at level 17. It seems weird to me that there is a clear progression for attacks (2nd at 5th, 3rd at 11, 4th at... 20? WHY?!?!) that just suddenly breaks because reasons. I feel like it's a pretty crappy capstone (obviously) but also think it weird that Monks can do 4 attacks by level 5 with a bonus action and Ki expenditure, Warlocks get a 4th eldritch blast ray by level 17, but fighters have to wait until level 20. To me, that's straight bull. But that's a personal house rule I have. Anyways, on to the capstones!
I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind this. How would a fighter be able to do more damage on a more difficult shot, but not be able to do equal damage on an easier shot? Outside of that, this seems decent.
This is definitely my favorite of your proposed abilities. I might change the last effect to be any forced movement, rather than just magical forced movement.
The coolest named ability, but for me the mechanics you propose don't match the visual I have in my head. Of course, that's just my opinion and interpretation. I think it would be better to leave in two-handed and heavy properties in weapons, since there are abilities that specifically state they only work with attacks made by heavy/two-handed weapons and by RAW, those attacks would no longer function. Personally, I think Titan Grip would be more interesting if it allowed a character to wield an oversized weapon, or treat a weapon they hold with the heavy/two-handed property as if it was an oversized weapon. The last two bullet points are cool though and fit.
I like this one. Well done!
I like this one too!
Personally, I give fighter's their fourth attack at level 17. It seems weird to me that there is a clear progression for attacks (2nd at 5th, 3rd at 11, 4th at... 20? WHY?!?!) that just suddenly breaks because reasons. I feel like it's a pretty crappy capstone (obviously) but also think it weird that Monks can do 4 attacks by level 5 with a bonus action and Ki expenditure, Warlocks get a 4th eldritch blast ray by level 17, but fighters have to wait until level 20. To me, that's straight bull. But that's a personal house rule I have. Anyways, on to the capstones!
I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind this. How would a fighter be able to do more damage on a more difficult shot, but not be able to do equal damage on an easier shot? Outside of that, this seems decent.
This is definitely my favorite of your proposed abilities. I might change the last effect to be any forced movement, rather than just magical forced movement.
The coolest named ability, but for me the mechanics you propose don't match the visual I have in my head. Of course, that's just my opinion and interpretation. I think it would be better to leave in two-handed and heavy properties in weapons, since there are abilities that specifically state they only work with attacks made by heavy/two-handed weapons and by RAW, those attacks would no longer function. Personally, I think Titan Grip would be more interesting if it allowed a character to wield an oversized weapon, or treat a weapon they hold with the heavy/two-handed property as if it was an oversized weapon. The last two bullet points are cool though and fit.
I like this one. Well done!
I like this one too!
snickersnax
Explorer
I like this for a ranger capstone:
Foe slayer: At 20th level, you become an unparalleled hunter of your enemies. Versus your favored enemies you cannot be surprised and have advantage on all attack rolls, ability checks (including initiative) and saves. Favored enemies have disadvantage on attack rolls.
It has the flavor of knowing your favored enemy so well that you get foresight against them. You know your favored enemy so well that you can predict what they are going to do and when they are going to do it.
Foe slayer: At 20th level, you become an unparalleled hunter of your enemies. Versus your favored enemies you cannot be surprised and have advantage on all attack rolls, ability checks (including initiative) and saves. Favored enemies have disadvantage on attack rolls.
It has the flavor of knowing your favored enemy so well that you get foresight against them. You know your favored enemy so well that you can predict what they are going to do and when they are going to do it.
snickersnax
Explorer
And for the Wizard capstone....
S i g n a t u r e S p e l l :
When you reach 20th level, create a signature spell. Choose two 1st-3rd level wizard spells in your spellbook that you will combine into a single spell. The new spell will have a level equal to the combined total of the two spells. The casting time will be equal to the longer of the two spells, the duration will be equal to the shorter of the two spells, the range will be equal to the shorter of the two spells. If either spell requires concentration the new spell will require concentration. The new spell will not be a ritual You always have this signature spell prepared, and it doesn’t count against the number of spells you have prepared, and you can cast the spell without expending a spell slot. When you do so, you can’t do so again until you finish a short or long rest. You can use a spell slot to cast this spell as normal. Casting this spell at a higher level does not increase its effect.
S i g n a t u r e S p e l l :
When you reach 20th level, create a signature spell. Choose two 1st-3rd level wizard spells in your spellbook that you will combine into a single spell. The new spell will have a level equal to the combined total of the two spells. The casting time will be equal to the longer of the two spells, the duration will be equal to the shorter of the two spells, the range will be equal to the shorter of the two spells. If either spell requires concentration the new spell will require concentration. The new spell will not be a ritual You always have this signature spell prepared, and it doesn’t count against the number of spells you have prepared, and you can cast the spell without expending a spell slot. When you do so, you can’t do so again until you finish a short or long rest. You can use a spell slot to cast this spell as normal. Casting this spell at a higher level does not increase its effect.
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