Level advancement rate in 3rd- vs. real life

[buzzard]

OK, we've all seen many a discussion about the rate of level advancement in 3rd edition. Many feel it is too fast to be realistic. I would like to provide a counter example (one in particular, though it opens a wealth of sources).

Audie Murphy. In case you haven't heard of him, he was the most decorated soldier in the history of the U.S. Army. He received EVERY decoration for valor given out by the U.S. and 5 more from France and Belgium. He fought in the European theatre of W.W. II.

He started as a buck private, and advanced to staff seargent. He then received a battlefield commision, and was promoted to 2nd lieutenant.

He is credited with 240 kills of enemy soldiers, and with wounding and capturing a large number in addition to this.

OK, this is pretty damned impressive isn't it? Sounds almost like an epic sort of fellow (well not quite, but certainly high level). Well Audie Murphy was in the war for only three years.

Those who wish to read up more on him can check out:
www.audiemurphy.com

buzzard

 

[WayneLigon]

I wish I could remember who it was, but I read once that (whoever) had a litmus test for any modern-day RPG: could you build Arnold Schwarzenegger in it? Physically impressive and rich and married into one of the richest and politically connected families in America and famous and has extensive business contacts and etc etc.

 

[Ulrick]

"I'm a 10th level vice-president!"

--Al Gore in Futurama.

 

[Ravellion]

The problem is mostly with the fact that audie never was helpless. He basically was kick ass from the beginning. This is certainly not true for 1st level characters.

Also, we have a certain expectation from fiction that magical powers amass slowly. Salvatore had to work around the normal levelling advancement in The Cleric Quintet for instance, because it wouldn't have worked if every four weeks Cadderly would have said: "Hey, I know even more powerful spells than I did four weeks ago. Soon, I will be a very powerful cleric. In two years, I'll be the most powerful cleric of my order! Strange, I am not doing anything all the other clerics in my order aren't doing..."

Funny the way he handled it though - he sped it up even more, so he basically wouldn't have to handle it, and simply gave it a miraculous explanation.

 

[buzzard]

The problem is mostly with the fact that audie never was helpless. He basically was kick ass from the beginning. This is certainly not true for 1st level characters.

Where did you get the idea that Audie kicked ass from the beginning? He was brought up dirt poor. He might have had some hunting experience (which probably served him well), but her certainly didn't have combat experience. I certainly doubt Audie was slaughtering Germans from day one. He had to learn. He may have learned more quickly, but he did have to learn.

Also don't assume his background was all that different from many others in the Army at the time. A lot of the population was rural, and a huge portion of Americans hunted.

Truth be told, there is always a large difference between veterans of a few battles and those who are green.

buzzard

 

[MerakSpielman]

PCs only level fast because, in general, the world is catering to them.

Think about it.

You are a 1st level party of four, traveling through a swamp. The DM sees that you are 1st level, and pits you against a handful of giant leeches or something.

If a D&D world was "realistic" (beat on that term all you want, but you'll see what I mean) that same first level party could have stumbled into a troll encampment - and their leader is a 10th level barbarian. BOOM! no more 1st level party.

Do you realize how INCREDIBLY LUCKY a party of adventurers would have to be to ONLY run into threats that they HAPPEN to be able to overcome? Even as they increase in power? It's the old, "Where were the wandering dragons back when we were first level" question.

(By the same token, 15th level parties never seem to run into those small bands of kobolds that plague 1st level characters.)

Most low-level NPCs in a D&D world will be scared shootless at the prospect of actually going Adventuring. Why, they could get killed the very first day by a Gray Render or something. Consequentally, level advancement would be VERY SLOW for them since they don't want to risk getting xp.


So WHY don't PC parties get wiped out before they become 2nd level? Because it's NO FUN that's why. They are controlled by humans, in this world, playing a GAME. They want to be able to know that whatever their characters face, they will be able to overcome (even if it's difficult) and gain experience and power. NPCs have no such assurances. PCs, therefore, do not model behavior that is common in a D&D world. They are the one-in-a-million, just because they happen to run into a neat series of adventures especially sculpted to their level, allowing them to get incredibly powerful in a short amount of time.

Example: take a handful of D&D modules, designed for very-low-level, low-level, mid-level, high-level, and very-high-level parties. As a DM, you would throw these at your players and their PCs in order, because that's the way to have fun. For anybody else in our "real" D&D world, the stack would be shuffled. They would have no idea of the difficulty of an adventure until they got themselves (most likely) roasted alive - because "real life" is generally no fun at all, with dragons and necromancers afoot.

 

[Wippit Guud]

Low level adventures usually take place in or very near civilized areas. If you can remember back to 1ed, they had random monster tables for civilized areas, and uncivilized areas. Guess which had the power creatures?

So, no running into grey renders or anything because they all got wiped out. Gotta go travelling to far-off, mysterious places to encounter the hard-hitting stuff.

Unless you're in FR, in which case you can find a beholder in every city's mafia

 

[MerakSpielman]

But in FR, everybody's 10th level, anyway.

I seem to remember the 1st edition random encounter charts listing "Night Hag" under city encounters.

But say you have a standard opener for a 1st level quest: "The local mines have been mysteriously abandoned. The mayor is looking for somebody to investigate."

I can think of all kinds of ways the mine could be abandoned in the middle of a civilized region that would be certain death for a first level party... Or even a 5th level party. Or higher.

"For millenia, the crypt of the Lich King lay undisturbed, when suddenly, local miners broke through the undergroud wall..."

etc...


I will not be convinced!

 

[MerakSpielman]

Remember the line, "...and none who have attempted this have lived to tell the tale."

That's the kind of stuff your PC adventurers would go for, right?

What makes them think they are so special and different, that THEY can succeed where all others have failed? Yet time and time again, they do...

(disclaimer: arguing for the fun of it. Don't think I WANT my campaign worlds like this)(though my most recent one is kinda deadly if you're not careful)

 

[Wippit Guud]

I dunno... just started in a level 1 TT game, and our first encounter of 5 kobolds was almost a TPK (3 our of 5 and negatives, and 1 person at 3hp with 2 subdual)... being just 5 kobolds, we attacked. Had it been an ogre or something, I'm not dumb enough to stick around.