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Level Up (A5E) Level Up Class Preview: Adept

The Kickstarter has launched and already has nearly 2000 backers! Over the next month, we have plenty of fun stuff to show you. Let’s start with a class — and we’ll start at the beginning with the Adept.


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Russ Morrissey

Russ Morrissey


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Faolyn

Hero
The thread on the newest UA has branched off into a discussion on monks and why some of them (Four Elements, for instance) are weak, specifically because they don't have enough ki for both their martial arts and their spells. Since some people have worried that there still might not be enough exertion for the A5e class + archetype + maneuvers stuff, what should be done to ensure that the 05e archetypes can be properly used in the A5e chassis?

I'm particularly interested because I'm going to see about getting the players in my homebrew world to switch and one of them is playing a Sun Soul monk.
 

Stalker0

Legend
I'm particularly interested because I'm going to see about getting the players in my homebrew world to switch and one of them is playing a Sun Soul monk.
I think the "Ki" to this is to focus on abilities and maneuvers that use very little exertion (which is tough but they do exist). Aka more stances and passive abilities, and nothing that uses 2 exertion.

If you do that, then overall the Adept will have a decent amount more exertion than the Monk had, and so will be able to power more subclass abilities.
 

Stalker0

Legend
I think the "Ki" to this is to focus on abilities and maneuvers that use very little exertion (which is tough but they do exist). Aka more stances and passive abilities, and nothing that uses 2 exertion.

If you do that, then overall the Adept will have a decent amount more exertion than the Monk had, and so will be able to power more subclass abilities.
For example, for a 6th level adept here is a quick list of Focuses you could take that don't spend exertion:

Adept Weaponry/Weapon Skill
Battle Meditation
Deflect Missiles (if you don't throw them back)
Eye for Detail
Focused Strikes

And....yeah that's about it....so it is going to be a balancing act between your adept abilities and your sun soul abilities....but this can at least cut down the exertion expenditure.
 


niklinna

Looking for group
I've sometimes wondered about the economy of abilities that are fueled by "points" of whatever kind. It's quite easy to just use your max-exertion abilities until you use up your fuel, but in real life (whatever that's worth, of course), you do your 1-rep max, and your top capacity is reduced for a short amount of time. In game terms, if your max-exertion ability is 3, for example, and you use it, then you can't use any 2-exertion abilities on your next turn.
 

Stalker0

Legend
It also looks like the Adpet will have somewhere between 1 and 3 more exertion at every level than the ki of a similar level o5e Monk. I'm not seeing a downside for monk players to make the switch.
Agreed, honestly there is nothing that the monk brings to the table over the Adept until 7th level, when the monk can get some innate resistances that the Adept has to spend an action for. The adept can do everything the monk can do, and can specialize much easier.

But that is small potatoes compared to what the Adept has. While sometimes O5e vs LU is a choice in terms of which class is "better"..... with the adept its no contest.
 

Horwath

Hero
Agreed, honestly there is nothing that the monk brings to the table over the Adept until 7th level, when the monk can get some innate resistances that the Adept has to spend an action for. The adept can do everything the monk can do, and can specialize much easier.

But that is small potatoes compared to what the Adept has. While sometimes O5e vs LU is a choice in terms of which class is "better"..... with the adept its no contest.
like it's hard to be better than o5e monk...
 



niklinna

Looking for group
Can't speak for your experience, but all of my times running for and playing as a monk have shown it to be a great class that's been a joy to play.
Same! It’s a good time. Nothing quite like hearing them clickity clacks when I declare flurry of blows on a monk with extra attack
What? It doesn't bother you that your DPR isn't on par with other classes and that you're always running out of ki and...and...you're just having fun?! 😉
 


King Brad

Explorer
I'm hoping this is true for the FIghter and a few others as well. Although the official line seems to be "LU classes are comparable and comptatible with O5E", I hope the non-full casters get boosted a bit with just "same but different" to the full casters.
Well, every martial class is getting combat maneuvers. So, they all will be getting a power up to some degree.
 

Horwath

Hero
Can't speak for your experience, but all of my times running for and playing as a monk have shown it to be a great class that's been a joy to play.
Every character can be fun to play if you play it good.

However, that does not mean that there is not a lot wrong with the monk.

I played Shadow(somewhat useful class) and sun(waste of ink and paper for printing that one), and yes you can deal some damage for few rounds per rest and then you are just running around without decent AC, without decent HPs, no spells and no real skill usage. Hoping that monsters do not target you.

Shadow is great at that gameplay as you can teleport out of melee at will after your two pathetic d8 attacks.
 

King Brad

Explorer
Every character can be fun to play if you play it good.

However, that does not mean that there is not a lot wrong with the monk.

I played Shadow(somewhat useful class) and sun(waste of ink and paper for printing that one), and yes you can deal some damage for few rounds per rest and then you are just running around without decent AC, without decent HPs, no spells and no real skill usage. Hoping that monsters do not target you.

Shadow is great at that gameplay as you can teleport out of melee at will after your two pathetic d8 attacks.
Sounds like you may have been blowing your ki too quickly. The same thing can happen with a BM fighter and everyone loves them. Monk isn't just about damage. It's a melee controller class whose whole gimmick is getting into better positions and keeping the enemies on their heels. The problem I think comes from ppl just stunning or FoB everything in sight and then being left feeling like they're done playing.

I've never played a Sun Soul, but after re-reading their abilities, free ranged radiant blasts, a bonus action AoE spell and and a free lesser fireball to spam seems dope to me.
 

Horwath

Hero
Sounds like you may have been blowing your ki too quickly. The same thing can happen with a BM fighter and everyone loves them. Monk isn't just about damage. It's a melee controller class whose whole gimmick is getting into better positions and keeping the enemies on their heels. The problem I think comes from ppl just stunning or FoB everything in sight and then being left feeling like they're done playing.

I've never played a Sun Soul, but after re-reading their abilities, free ranged radiant blasts, a bonus action AoE spell and and a free lesser fireball to spam seems dope to me.
As BM fighter, you still have your high AC and more HPs

As for sun soul: free ranged radiant blasts? Yeah, you can have that also with javelins without spending sub class "slot" for it. AoE spell, 2ki for 3d6 damage at 6th level? talk about burning your keep. And free lesser fireball? 2d6 at 11th level? that is not worth using your action.
 

Stalker0

Legend
I'm hoping this is true for the FIghter and a few others as well. Although the official line seems to be "LU classes are comparable and comptatible with O5E", I hope the non-full casters get boosted a bit with just "same but different" to the full casters.
It seems to vary. Assuming the classes haven't change much from the playtest.

Fighter = Equal. The new fighter gets a lot more flexibility but leaves behind the "RAW POWER" of action surge, LU will likely be stronger in the hands of power gamers.
Druid = Equal. Very different wildshape mechanics so seems to depend on your cup of tea.
Paladin < LU Herald. I think the O5e smite is stronger but there are some crazy good LU ability's for the "herald".
Monk < LU Adept. All the toys of the monk + more.
Rogue = Equal. Both are cool and flexible in their own way.
 

VanguardHero

Explorer
God o5e's Monk is such an insult to game design, which tracks given how much it was trying to go back to 3.5.

Stunning Strike is hands down the most powerful ability they get, and anything else that uses Ki is, as far as effectiveness goes, incredibly niche at best. Meaning that Subclasses that focus on giving more things to do with Ki, are just wet noodles. Yes they keep designing classes based on more things to spend Ki on that are definitively worse than Stunning Strike, main exceptions are Kensei and Shadow. Kensei gives a lot of passive buffs which is nice and Shadow Monk gives cool Ki-less stuff and access to the spell that makes Stealth characters redundant.

The damage dealing is a JOKE. Most front liners get a choice of fighting styles but Monk is forced into Dual Wielding. Which is one of the less egregious problems but is context for how little they get. Flurry of Blows both costs resource on a per use basis, and can MISS. Every other "I'm not a Fighter" buff is bonus damage on first hit, Monk gets the unique position of getting to pay to miss. Barbarian Rage you pay for but it's for every hit in a combat, and Battle Master Maneuvers proc on hit so they always get to do their thing.

"But I had fun!" The Monk Class Fantasy is amazing, yes, but mechanically they amount to an audience bystander that gives a few free Hold Persons per Short Rest. To be fair, this isn't a problem unique to 5e, this was something that's been a problem since at least 3.5 (except in 4e, naturally) 5e just embraced and amplified all of 3.5's problems aside from fiddly numbers.

Adept though looks NICE though. Stunning Strike is still an option, which is still strong, and even has an upgraded version in Paralyzing Strike, but the playing field having shifted changes context a good amount. Other Martial Classes can Stun so it's less unique, you can choose to take other effective options instead so it's not just always hovering there as a better usage of actions than whatever you built to do, and more Classes wanting a Short Rest should hopefully help to curb how quickly Adept can Nova through their points.

A couple builds seem really appealing to me. Kensei gets a lot of fun tools, like the Hook Swords, and I don't think it would be a heavy ask to allow Adept Weaponry combined with Kensei to allow a Glaive/Naginata wielding weapon master but that's not quite RAW due to system differences but not game breaking. Stunning Strike, Paralyzing Strike, and Pressure Point Secrets on an Astral Self Adept, combined with more points early on, means a WIS Monk is a much more viable build requiring a bit more resource management to sidestep being MAD with potentially great payoff.

Monk needed the most love and DAMN did they get it :D
 

timespike

Adventurer
It seems to vary. Assuming the classes haven't change much from the playtest.

Fighter = Equal. The new fighter gets a lot more flexibility but leaves behind the "RAW POWER" of action surge, LU will likely be stronger in the hands of power gamers.
Druid = Equal. Very different wildshape mechanics so seems to depend on your cup of tea.
Paladin < LU Herald. I think the O5e smite is stronger but there are some crazy good LU ability's for the "herald".
Monk < LU Adept. All the toys of the monk + more.
Rogue = Equal. Both are cool and flexible in their own way.
I tried out the fighter, adept, and herald during the internal playtests and I was extremely happy with how all three played. It's also worth noting that in O5e, I usually play primary spellcasters because they have more interesting stuff to do, and I didn't "feel the loss" in the fighter and adept at all. Maneuvers really do spice things up beautifully.

In addition, I cannot speak highly enough of the versatility of the new options. I went a bit "out there" with the adept and made a fencer and was really happy with it. Felt like a PC I could have played for a long campaign and not gotten sick of.
 


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