Level Up (A5E) Level Up Class Preview: Adept

The Kickstarter has launched and already has nearly 2000 backers! Over the next month, we have plenty of fun stuff to show you. Let’s start with a class — and we’ll start at the beginning with the Adept.


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Russ Morrissey

Russ Morrissey

I really got the feeling that Adept, with all of the specific flavor aspects turned into choices, makes for a REALLY good general light speedy combatant Class now if that's what you're building for, which just feels right.
Yeah, I have a feeling with a lot of these classes, the surface has barely been scratched where the possibilities are concerned. It'll be really cool to see what folks do with them once the books are out there in the wild.
 

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lichmaster

Adventurer
Other small but fun ideas/considerations I got while perusing the class options:
  • shadow step: teleport up to 60ft in a shadowy area as bonus action that does not cost resources. Makes for an exceptional infiltrator or assassin.
  • unlikely wield + additional attack + battering shield : 3 attacks with main and + 2 attacks with off hand without spending resources. If you hit with at least 2 attacks against the same target, you also gain 2 ac against it. You can mix and match attacks with maneouvers, for an exertion cost.
  • to the above add last dance + hooked swords dance, aka "the blender": round 1, bonus action and 2 exertion for hooked swords dance (gain range until end of next round), 3 main hand attacks. Round 2 onwards: attack from range, 3 main hand + 2 offhand attacks, if 2 attacks hit the same target +2 ac against it, if one attack with each hand hit do additional 1d10 damage. Use last dance (free action, 2 exertion) to keep hooked swords dance. Rinse and repeat. Upkeep cost: 2 exertion per round, plus eventual cost for maneuvers.
 

lichmaster

Adventurer
Beyond size: can perform basic maneuvers regardless of opponent size. If opponent is larger it has disadvantage on saves against manuvers: is this meant to grapple and knockdown (i.e. pin down) the mighty Tarrasque? :ROFLMAO:
 

Kerrus

Explorer
Reading through now, but one immediate concern, the Exertion Focus section at no point ever communicates how much exertion you get. There's a bit later that talks about bonus exertion where you can infer it works like 5e monk's ki pool and is = class level. But it doesn't say that.

It needs to say how many you get.

There's no way to replenish exertion. As written, once you expend your exertion, you never get it back. Ever. This is probably not intended? A level 20 adept probably has 0 exertion because they spent the 1 point they got when they leveled up in a fight, and have better things to spend their Hit Die on then regaining 1d4 exertion to make their class features work. Or worse, they didn't take battle meditation, and can't regain exertion at all.

Especially since this version of the monk doesn't regain exertion/ki when combat starts, which means that the only way to get it back is battle meditation.

Is that intended?


Aside from that, I definitely agree with other comments that the Adept's abilities generally cost too much exertion- lots of two cost for cool things that aren't actually useful. The 1 turn mirror image spell for 2 exertion is particularly egregious- it should either cost 1, or cost 3 and actually just cast the full spell and last a minute.

Actually, given that you can't realistically replenish exertion, I feel like adepts should get like, a lot. If I have to ration out a potential maximum of 30 exertion across the duration of my entire adventuring career, I'm just never going to choose class features that expend it, because once it's gone it's gone forever.
 

Reading through now, but one immediate concern, the Exertion Focus section at no point ever communicates how much exertion you get. There's a bit later that talks about bonus exertion where you can infer it works like 5e monk's ki pool and is = class level. But it doesn't say that.

It needs to say how many you get.

There's no way to replenish exertion. As written, once you expend your exertion, you never get it back. Ever. This is probably not intended? A level 20 adept probably has 0 exertion because they spent the 1 point they got when they leveled up in a fight, and have better things to spend their Hit Die on then regaining 1d4 exertion to make their class features work. Or worse, they didn't take battle meditation, and can't regain exertion at all.

Especially since this version of the monk doesn't regain exertion/ki when combat starts, which means that the only way to get it back is battle meditation.

Is that intended?


Aside from that, I definitely agree with other comments that the Adept's abilities generally cost too much exertion- lots of two cost for cool things that aren't actually useful. The 1 turn mirror image spell for 2 exertion is particularly egregious- it should either cost 1, or cost 3 and actually just cast the full spell and last a minute.

Actually, given that you can't realistically replenish exertion, I feel like adepts should get like, a lot. If I have to ration out a potential maximum of 30 exertion across the duration of my entire adventuring career, I'm just never going to choose class features that expend it, because once it's gone it's gone forever.
It’s explained in the combat maneuvers section. Exertion focus seems to be a specialized rule for Adepts, but combat maneuvers are more generalized so the explanation is found there.
 

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Waller

Hero
Reading through now, but one immediate concern, the Exertion Focus section at no point ever communicates how much exertion you get. There's a bit later that talks about bonus exertion where you can infer it works like 5e monk's ki pool and is = class level. But it doesn't say that.

It needs to say how many you get.

There's no way to replenish exertion. As written, once you expend your exertion, you never get it back. Ever. This is probably not intended? A level 20 adept probably has 0 exertion because they spent the 1 point they got when they leveled up in a fight, and have better things to spend their Hit Die on then regaining 1d4 exertion to make their class features work. Or worse, they didn't take battle meditation, and can't regain exertion at all.

Especially since this version of the monk doesn't regain exertion/ki when combat starts, which means that the only way to get it back is battle meditation.

Is that intended?


Aside from that, I definitely agree with other comments that the Adept's abilities generally cost too much exertion- lots of two cost for cool things that aren't actually useful. The 1 turn mirror image spell for 2 exertion is particularly egregious- it should either cost 1, or cost 3 and actually just cast the full spell and last a minute.

Actually, given that you can't realistically replenish exertion, I feel like adepts should get like, a lot. If I have to ration out a potential maximum of 30 exertion across the duration of my entire adventuring career, I'm just never going to choose class features that expend it, because once it's gone it's gone forever.
It says it right there. Look again. ;)
 

Kerrus

Explorer
It’s explained in the combat maneuvers section. Exertion focus seems to be a specialized rule for Adepts, but combat maneuvers are more generalized so the explanation is found there.
It is badly placed, then. There's no way I would have noticed it nestled at the top of the second paragraph. The order should probably be: you get an exertion pool, which you can use to fuel maneuvers and other class features, list your exertion DC, etc, how you regain it, etc, THEN list the maneuvers, then show the class features like exertion focus, etc.

As it is, it's very overlookable.
 

It is badly placed, then. There's no way I would have noticed it nestled at the top of the second paragraph. The order should probably be: you get an exertion pool, which you can use to fuel maneuvers and other class features, list your exertion DC, etc, how you regain it, etc, THEN list the maneuvers, then show the class features like exertion focus, etc.

As it is, it's very overlookable.
That’s one opinion I guess. Seems like reading a sorcerers font of magic section discussing spell slots being recovered and getting upset that they don’t mention what spells do in that description. But we all have our own opinions I suppose.
 

Kerrus

Explorer
That’s one opinion I guess. Seems like reading a sorcerers font of magic section discussing spell slots being recovered and getting upset that they don’t mention what spells do in that description. But we all have our own opinions I suppose.
I didn't say anything about listing what spells/maneuvers do, but thanks for the strawman I guess.
 

I didn't say anything about listing what spells/maneuvers do, but thanks for the strawman I guess.
I don’t know what to tell you. The ability you went on a 4 paragraph rant about was in the preceding paragraphs, which is standard design for abilities in classes that add on to existing separate abilities (thus the sorcerer comparison).

I get that finding out you didn’t catch something isn’t ideal, but doubling down and then lashing out about it is a weird choice.

Sorry you missed it, sorry you don’t like my comparison after you continued to try to decry standard design as bad design, sorry two of us took the time to explain it. Have a good day pal, I sincerely hope it gets better for you.
 

Faolyn

(she/her)
Aside from that, I definitely agree with other comments that the Adept's abilities generally cost too much exertion- lots of two cost for cool things that aren't actually useful. The 1 turn mirror image spell for 2 exertion is particularly egregious- it should either cost 1, or cost 3 and actually just cast the full spell and last a minute.
Well, first off, mirror image is a 2nd-level spell. O5e monk archetypes that let you cast spells (specifically four elements) generally charged 1 ki or more per spell level (note that fly is a 3rd-level spell, but 4E monks have to spend 4 ki).

Secondly, while the adept's mirror image only lasts a turn, it also only requires a bonus action to cast.

Due to the bonus exertion that adepts get, adepts generally have a little bit more exertion than monks have ki (a 4th-level mink has 4 points; a 4th-level adept has 5). And while they also get back all spent exertion after a short or long rest, they can also do the meditation-for-a-minute and get back 1d4 exertion (works just like Battle Meditation, except it takes a minute, and everyone can do it, not just adepts). Or at least they could as of the Combat Maneuvers playtest.
 






I like the idea of allowing my players to mix and match O5e and Level Up base classes and subclasses. One of the cool things about the Adept is that it trades out the required mystical stuff allowing for some interesting options. One that immediately stands out as appealing to me is using Kensai with Adept which really conceptually works well.

Another idea is using Warrior Monk with monk for someone who wants all the O5e stuff, but really wants to focus on unarmed to the exclusion of weapons.

On that second concept, I‘m wandering if taking a martial tradition has some basic benefit in addition to access to maneuver lists. On the surface it looks like Warrior Monk doesn‘t get a third level feature if you use it with the O5e monk. Maybe (hopefully) Level Up already has a more general rule in the compatibility appendix on that sort of thing. If not, I might have to house rule giving them a maneuver (maybe two eventually) for that combo to work.
 

I like the idea of allowing my players to mix and match O5e and Level Up base classes and subclasses. One of the cool things about the Adept is that it trades out the required mystical stuff allowing for some interesting options. One that immediately stands out as appealing to me is using Kensai with Adept which really conceptually works well.

Another idea is using Warrior Monk with monk for someone who wants all the O5e stuff, but really wants to focus on unarmed to the exclusion of weapons.

On that second concept, I‘m wandering if taking a martial tradition has some basic benefit in addition to access to maneuver lists. On the surface it looks like Warrior Monk doesn‘t get a third level feature if you use it with the O5e monk. Maybe (hopefully) Level Up already has a more general rule in the compatibility appendix on that sort of thing. If not, I might have to house rule giving them a maneuver (maybe two eventually) for that combo to work.
You can do this without too much trouble as long as you keep two things in mind:

1. A character should never be able to have levels in the O5E version of a class and the corresponding A5E class. So no Paladin/Herald, Berserker/Barbarian, Ranger/Ranger, or Adept/Monk builds.
2. A5E classes are much more well-rounded in terms of being able to contribute to all three pillars of the game than their O5E counterparts. So if you have an O5E character next to some A5E ones, while there aren't any real balance issues to worry about, don't be surprised if the players running O5E classes start to get a little envious of the exploration and social abilities of the other characters around the table.
 

lichmaster

Adventurer
2. A5E classes are much more well-rounded in terms of being able to contribute to all three pillars of the game than their O5E counterparts. So if you have an O5E character next to some A5E ones, while there aren't any real balance issues to worry about, don't be surprised if the players running O5E classes start to get a little envious of the exploration and social abilities of the other characters around the table.
Well, on the flip side, that's one hell of advertisement for A5E ;)
 

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