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niklinna

Looking for group
I'm already pokin' around! Looks pretty comprehensive. Iniital comments & issues:
  • Character sheet opens in NPC format, but the NPC button up top is not highlighted. (I hope these gigantic PC/NPC buttons are not visible to players; they chew up a lot of screen space for something that players will never even use.)
  • Layout is busy & cluttered (see below), and many labels overlap & partially obscure the values.
  • Many fields show a pop-up combo box for predefined options if you start typing. If you just click, it doesn't appear, but if you click a second time when the field is empty, the combo box appears, showing all predefined options. It isn't obvious that you need to click a second time to get that.
  • Archetype combo-box list contains all archetypes for all classes, even if you have specified a class, and the archetypes are implicitly ordered by class first, then archetype name, without any indication which class each archetype goes with.
  • Heritage combo-box list is not strictly alphabetical.
  • Culture combo-box list is not strictly alphabetical: Heritage cultures are listed after the more generic ones. Add headers to the list if possible, showing there are categories of heritages.
  • Tunnel Halfling culture is misspelled (missing final 'g').
  • Choosing a predefined option for many things doesn't seem to fill anything in with the content for that option. Are the predefined options just conveniences, or is the intent to have choosing them fill in things from the rules?
  • Some fields filled with random values when I clicked. That only happened once and I haven't been able to reproduce it, but I'll keep an eye out for it. [Edit: This was the Destiny subfields auto-filling when I chose a Destiny, but they didn't fill in until I clicked in a different field. If I pick a Destiny from the combo-box list, the subfields should fill in immediately.]
On visual design: Using black line borders for all these areas is really busy, especially when the border is a double line! Instead please use background shades/colors to distinguish boxed areas (be mindful of color blindness of course). Typeface distinctions can also be helpful in visual scanning. Right now sans serif & serif typefaces seem to be used randomly. If, for example, all labels are sans serif and all values are serif (or just visually distinct typeface families), it will be much easier for the user to scan for and find the information they want.

In several tables (notably equipment), column headings and line-item fields don't line up. Text in many fields would be better left-aligned rather than centered, which will help scanning lists of equipment and such. +Add and Modify buttons could be made much more compact by using a simple + and hamburger-menu icon instead of textual labels.

I'll keep pokin'!
 
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niklinna

Looking for group
Spells being grouped as they are into distinct tables by level doesn't seem useful. I would much rather have one big table of all my spells, with a column for spell level and/or spell points, and buttons to sort the entire table by level, name, spell-point cost, and whatever else might be useful to sort by (class? recovery on short/long rest?). Known/slots/expended should be its own separate table. There should be a "cast" button for each spell that will automatically update the expended/points-used fields in that separate table.
 

RPGMajor

Explorer
Hmm. First thing I noticed, either there isn't a separate button for rolling ability checks besides the button for saving throws, or there is and it isn't obvious, because I can't find it.
 

niklinna

Looking for group
More comments! As usual with this sort of thing, I'm not reporting on what you got right 'cause it doesn't need attention.
  • Death Saves, Fatigue, & Strife check boxes are independent of one another. If you click, say, the third one, then the first three should fill in. (See the pretty nifty Blades in the Dark character sheet for a good example, in the Stress & XP trackers.)
  • It would make sense to put Temp HP and Current HP in side-by-side fields (or Temp above Current), since those together in order are your "active" HP.
  • Ability modifier & save values should have a + or - in front of them.
  • Skills should show your effective values so you can judge likelihood of success.
  • Skills should have a pop-up menu of abilities, defaulting to the, well, default, so you can change it for a given check without having to answer the prompt every single time. (See the pretty nifty Torg Eternity character sheet for a good example.)
  • I'm torn about the presence of d20 icons to click in order to roll the save or ability check, when you could make the save/skill name clickable and save a little real estate. On the other hand, that is not obvious, but it's pretty easily discovered when the cursor changes to a hand. (Again see the Torg Eternity character sheet for an example. It does add a d20 icon for custom skills, since those labels are editable by default, a not-great visual compromise but most efficient in general; labels are bigger mouse targets for Fitz's law.)
  • I entered "+3" in my attack bonus for a weapon, and the rolls all came out as zero. Entering a + or - is something many players are likely to do, so the field parser or die roll calculator should account for that.
  • Features & Knacks (possibly more) are just big freeform text fields, with no means of tracking uses of abilities. Ideally these would be collections of line items with fields for "uses per (long|short) rest", "uses so far", name, description, and so one. (I hate to harp on it, but the Torg Eternity character sheet once again has several great examples of this under the Weapons & Powers section, which would also be great to have for the Character tab's Attacks & Spellcasting. It might even make sense to have all prepped/known spells in the Attacks & Spellcasting section.)
 

RPGMajor

Explorer
One note is, to my understanding from the preview, Level Up has no default ability score for skills, the two were entirely disassociated. So that's probably why the pop up menu doesn't default to a particular one.
 
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Bunker

Hero
  • Skills should have a pop-up menu of abilities, defaulting to the, well, default, so you can change it for a given check without having to answer the prompt every single time. (See the pretty nifty Torg Eternity character sheet for a good example.)

One note is, to my understanding from the preview, Level Up has no default ability score for skills, the two were entirely disassociated. So that's probably why the pop up menu doesn't default to a particular one.
Yeah, there is no deault in Level Up.
 

niklinna

Looking for group
One note is, to my understanding from the preview, Level Up has no default ability score for skills, the two were entirely disassociated. So that's probably why the pop up menu doesn't default to a particular one.
Even if there's no default, there will probably be one that's used most frequently, and the ability to set it for repeated use instead of having to answer a dialog prompt every single time you roll would be nice. There is the risk of rolling on the wrong ability if you don't remember to set it, of course, but the chat log should show the ability you rolled off so anybody could catch it.
 

TheHand

Explorer
File under "Be Nice to Have..."

I tried importing NPCs using the "Transmogrifier" from a standard 5e game with the following results:
  • Name and Ability scores do come through (str, dex, etc), but that's about it. It does not auto-calculate the bonus modifiers.
  • Nothing else comes through. Even if I have to manually re-add specific abilities, it would be helpful to have Armor Class, Hit Points, and Speed also transfer over.

Spells:
  • I'd like to be able to put in the descriptions of the spells, even if in a multi-line text-box format. It makes it easier to look up the game text in a session than having to find the page in a book.
Equipment:
  • Just like with spells, I'd like to be able to put in full descriptions (more than just properties). I often use custom items with various amounts of flavor text.
Notes Section:
  • I'd love either an additional button-tab for a "Notes" page or at least a text box under Backgrounds for additional notes. I guess "Verbosity" is my theme here.
Skills:
  • An option to rename skills for Homebrew purposes would be really nifty, but that's a very frivolous request!
 

Zaukrie

New Publisher
in roll20....can you only have 1 kind of character sheet for all pcs and npcs at a time?

It looks like I set that in the campaign settings.....

(I know this is a roll20 question, not strictly level up......but how would I have PCs from teh regular PHB and LevelUP PHB in the same campaign?)
 

TheHand

Explorer
in roll20....can you only have 1 kind of character sheet for all pcs and npcs at a time?

It looks like I set that in the campaign settings.....

(I know this is a roll20 question, not strictly level up......but how would I have PCs from teh regular PHB and LevelUP PHB in the same campaign?)

Yes, Roll20 only allows 1 character sheet type for each game you create.
 



Zeta Marishi

Villager
The NPC sheet seems a bit weird to me, I'll be honest, though lord knows I don't really know why. Then again, I'm used to the 5e shaped sheet, so yeah.

The PC sheet looks pretty solid, though not perfect. Niklinna's and The Hand's thoughts are, for the most part, my own so yeah.
 

paulvenner

Explorer
Hi

I'm the Developer who is doing the work for Morrus for this Character sheet on Roll20.

In general the sheet looks like it does because it is a recreation of the pdf character sheet available on the Level Up site.

I've read through the lists and so far I've fixed
  • ensured the PC tab is first
  • put Heritage and Culture into strict alphabetic order
  • Corrected spelling
  • Fixed some lists formatting - like equipment and some others - still looking at this for the best layout
I'll try to answer some of the queries here
  • This was the Destiny subfields auto-filling when I chose a Destiny, but they didn't fill in until I clicked in a different field. If I pick a Destiny from the combo-box list, the subfields should fill in immediately
this is because roll20/html doesn't treat a change to be live unless you've clicked out of the field, it then saves the change you've typed in/selected - i can then fire off a sheetworker script to fill in the other fields.
  • Archetype combo-box list contains all archetypes for all classes, even if you have specified a class, and the archetypes are implicitly ordered by class first, then archetype name, without any indication which class each archetype goes with.
Currently its difficult to do dynamic combo boxes. So lists that fill from other lists. I am investigating some options and I'll add it to my stuff to do list
  • Choosing a predefined option for many things doesn't seem to fill anything in with the content for that option. Are the predefined options just conveniences, or is the intent to have choosing them fill in things from the rules?
a lot of the drop down lists are just that aids to help you select stuff quicker
  • Death Saves, Fatigue, & Strife check boxes are independent of one another. If you click, say, the third one, then the first three should fill in. (See the pretty nifty Blades in the Dark character sheet for a good example, in the Stress & XP trackers.)
I have added this to the 'list'
  • It would make sense to put Temp HP and Current HP in side-by-side fields (or Temp above Current), since those together in order are your "active" HP.
it looks like this because of the original format of the character sheet
  • Ability modifier & save values should have a + or - in front of them.
This is a facit of the roll20 and hmtl number field - i will look into the possibility of improving this - i.e. its on the list ;)
  • Skills should show your effective values so you can judge likelihood of success.
this is difficult to do as skills have been detached from abilities
  • Skills should have a pop-up menu of abilities, defaulting to the, well, default, so you can change it for a given check without having to answer the prompt every single time. (See the pretty nifty Torg Eternity character sheet for a good example.)
i could use the default from the standard 5th ed - i wil look into this - added to the 'list'
  • I'm torn about the presence of d20 icons to click in order to roll the save or ability check, when you could make the save/skill name clickable and save a little real estate. On the other hand, that is not obvious, but it's pretty easily discovered when the cursor changes to a hand. (Again see the Torg Eternity character sheet for an example. It does add a d20 icon for custom skills, since those labels are editable by default, a not-great visual compromise but most efficient in general; labels are bigger mouse targets for Fitz's law.)
i'll be honest i am the same i will look in to it as the dice do use up screen real-estate - added to the 'list'
  • I entered "+3" in my attack bonus for a weapon, and the rolls all came out as zero. Entering a + or - is something many players are likely to do, so the field parser or die roll calculator should account for that.
Ok this is because i set the attack bonus to be a text field and treated it as just a number which means if you put in +10 or -10 it breaks -- i'll look at fixing this and document it better in the wiki
  • Features & Knacks (possibly more) are just big freeform text fields, with no means of tracking uses of abilities. Ideally these would be collections of line items with fields for "uses per (long|short) rest", "uses so far", name, description, and so one. (I hate to harp on it, but the Torg Eternity character sheet once again has several great examples of this under the Weapons & Powers section, which would also be great to have for the Character tab's Attacks & Spellcasting. It might even make sense to have all prepped/known spells in the Attacks & Spellcasting section.)
I'll add this to the 'list'
  • I tried importing NPCs using the "Transmogrifier" from a standard 5e game with the following results:
  • Name and Ability scores do come through (str, dex, etc), but that's about it. It does not auto-calculate the bonus modifiers.
  • Nothing else comes through. Even if I have to manually re-add specific abilities, it would be helpful to have Armor Class, Hit Points, and Speed also transfer over.
i'll be honest not sure about this one, but I'll look into this to see if we can get more working

  • Spells:
  • I'd like to be able to put in the descriptions of the spells, even if in a multi-line text-box format. It makes it easier to look up the game text in a session than having to find the page in a book.
I'll look into doing this
  • Equipment:
  • Just like with spells, I'd like to be able to put in full descriptions (more than just properties). I often use custom items with various amounts of flavor text.
again i'll look into it
  • Notes Section:
  • I'd love either an additional button-tab for a "Notes" page or at least a text box under Backgrounds for additional notes. I guess "Verbosity" is my theme here.
i can add a new tab after spells for notes.. added to the 'list'
  • Skills:
  • An option to rename skills for Homebrew purposes would be really nifty, but that's a very frivolous request!
not sure how to do this, but i'll look into it i.e. add it to the 'list'

ok thats a few things added to the list.. i'll try to work through them as soon as i can - some may not be possible - but some may be quick fixes -- when i fix the sheet i have to send it to roll20 for approval this can take up to a week, during this time i can continue working on more fixes and if i finish them i can submit them up until roll20 approve the changes and then it starts again i send the next batch for approval etc...

if any one has any more questions please feel free to ask
 

RPGMajor

Explorer
How about a separate button for straight ability checks that aren't skills or saves? Unless there is one and I still can't find it.
 


niklinna

Looking for group
Thanks for the detailed reply!

Somehow I am not surprised at the number of problems that are really because roll20 itself....
 

TheHand

Explorer
How about a separate button for straight ability checks that aren't skills or saves? Unless there is one and I still can't find it.
I think it's a little hard to see, but there's a d20 icon right above the ability modifier for each ability. That should roll an unmodified ability check

OOF, no I was totally wrong. That button was for rolling Saving Throws. Yeah, there doesn't seem to be an unmodified ability roll. That would be very helpful to have.
 
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TheHand

Explorer
Another request, if I may be so bold...
An ability to add a static modifier to skills. Sometimesthere are items or other factors in my game that might add +2 to Stealth, for instance. On Roll20's vanilla 5e sheet, there's a little gear icon that opens up a page where you can add those sorts of modifiers. This doesn't need to be quite as detailed, but some functionality like that would be very useful!
Thanks!
sheet-sample.PNG

[\SPOILER]
 
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