leveling vs "locationing"

[xechnao]

leveling vs locationing

So, levels seem to be the standard method of lasting gameplay in traditional rpg design. Critters of dungeon level 3 are more powerful than critters of dungeon level 2 and so on -and thus adventures and their plots are modeled. And as you know, in game design terms, you need the experience points of dungeon level 2 to proceed to dungeon level 3.

Since we are dealing with rpgs, why not try to base game design on "locationing" instead. By "locationing" I mean to introduce more natural ways to close and open locations in the sense of a direct connection to plot development and PC choices. Those that have played classic rpg video games, such as Baldur's gate, can see how these games were based on something like this.

So why not try to develop this aspect of game design. "Locationing" in place of leveling?

 

[ExploderWizard]

How would this work exactly? How certain areas be "locked" for lower level characters that wouldn't seem artificial?

WOW uses "zones" that are geared towards a certain level range but most are kind of open to wanderers. Getting killed every three steps is kind of a hint that you shouldn't be in an area but you can if you want to. I have streaked naked level 10 toons through STV to get a flight point. It wasn't easy but it happened.

 

[Squire James]

I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about. Character power based on the land or culture they happen to be standing in the middle of? Character power based on the "most powerful area" that they visited and survived a few (or how many?) encounters? Or a similar concept, such as a "level cap" based on where they've gone?

I dunno. This would seem to require arbitrary "plot doors" to keep characters from going to the "powerful areas" quickly, which in my opinion was one of the weaker points of the Baldur's Gate computer game series.

Of course, you could be talking about something else entirely, in which case you should enlighten this dark soul...

 

[xechnao]

You are still thinking about leveling, alas it seems so hardwired

Forget about character power or power in general. Try to forget about leveling and try to think about this:

Depending on your background, when the game begins some "doors" are open and some doors are "closed". There is some kind of need or motivation to try to open the "closed" doors because apart from their openness or closeness, the doors -or, in other words, your situation- will have qualities that push you to go on to try to open the closed ones. Which door you try to go after is your choice. And as you explore ways to try to approach the "doors" you want to, new doors are discovered that keep you going on.

I keep this abstract so to give a clue about the game design - beyond plot, so to avoid disorientating you.

 

[ExploderWizard]

You are still thinking about leveling, alas it seems so hardcoded

Forget about character power or power in general. Try to forget about leveling and try to think about this:

Depending on your background, when the game begins some "doors" are open and some doors are "closed". There is some kind of need or motivation to try to open the "closed" doors because apart from their openness or closeness, the doors -or, in other words, your situation- will have qualities that push you to go on to try to open the closed ones. Which door you try to go after is your choice. And as you explore ways to try to approach the "doors" you want to, new doors are discovered that keep you going on.

I keep this abstract so to give a clue about the game design - beyond plot, so to avoid disorientating you.

To quote the wise Brisco County Jr. " You lost me Pete."

 

[fba827]

I'm not really clear what you're trying to ask. Could you give another example?

In computer games, areas are often locked off until the character is ready to advance in plot -- that locked off door can sometimes be in an area they passed through earlier in the game (my guess is that this is actually because it saves the developer sometime since that means the location is all the same, thematically, just extended, but i digress).

In tabletop RPGs, the usual thing I see is to have the areas immediately surrounding the starting town be the easier areas. And as they get a plot hook to go out further they'll find the further away areas to be harder (thus, the plot device acts as the thing that opens the door. although there was no door, there was no need or motivation to go off that far)...

Anyway, as said though, I'm not sure I understand your initial question... so do you have any better examples of what you're asking about?

 

[Umbran]

Forget about character power or power in general.

Advancement in power is fairly central to many people's enjoyment of the game. I don't see why we should forget that.

I keep this abstract so to give a clue about the game design - beyond plot, so to avoid disorientating you.

I don't see how this is "beyond" plot - in fact, it sounds more that it is central to plot. Plot is what you get when you've passed through several "doors", no?

To date, in computer games the rules engine and the adventure (and campaign) design are handled by the same people. That is not true of tabletop RPGs. I don't think it would be advisable to have the rules engine of a tabletop game impose structure on adventure or campaign design too directly. It would impinge on the creative freedom of the DM.

 

[xechnao]

Advancement in power is fairly central to many people's enjoyment of the game. I don't see why we should forget that.

My premise here is that what matters for enjoyment the most is advancement, period. Power is but the classic method, the one that the first rpg was designed with. Since today design draws heavily from the very first design idea -beyond the gameplay idea. But is this design necessarily optimal for tabletop rpgs? I am not sure.

Plot is what you get when you've passed through several "doors", no?

Of course. This is why I am talking about a more natural or rather intuitive design to the game's gameplay.

I don't think it would be advisable to have the rules engine of a tabletop game impose structure on adventure or campaign design too directly. It would impinge on the creative freedom of the DM.

But classes and leveling do this sort of thing. I say keep classes or rather "background" but instead of trying to develop them through a rather vertical design and rather linear (from level 1 you go to level 2 to level 3 etch) try to make a more horizontal design that could even make more real world sense.

For example in your background you are a Paladin. This means that you have some certain type of tasks to face. Now, rules could be so that there is choice to be made here and based on choice plot is developed.
The DM has to provide the choices and the player has to choose. The way choices work or interact are provided by the rules.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Maybe an example would help. It sounds a little bit like you're talking about "dungeon flow" or branching options (e.g.: you start in a position X, and you have several options about how to move from there, and which one you take determines what your next options will be, and you might be able to return to position X to take a different option in the future, or not, or whatever -- it flows like exploring a dungeon), but in regard to....what?

Character abilities?

Bonuses to dice rolls?

Narrative exploration?

D&D has long used the idea of a dungeon as a thing to beat in and of itself, in addition to the linear level advancement. Being level 20 just helps you beat the dungeon, which gets you the gold/fame/fortune/whatever your character implicitly wants for some reason.

I'm not quite grokking if that's what you mean, or how would use this with regards to an alternate to leveling (since you can easily have both).

 

[KidSnide]

Depending on your background, when the game begins some "doors" are open and some doors are "closed". There is some kind of need or motivation to try to open the "closed" doors because apart from their openness or closeness, the doors -or, in other words, your situation- will have qualities that push you to go on to try to open the closed ones. Which door you try to go after is your choice. And as you explore ways to try to approach the "doors" you want to, new doors are discovered that keep you going on.

I keep this abstract so to give a clue about the game design - beyond plot, so to avoid disorientating you.

This seems like the sort of situation in which it helps to provide a concrete example before speaking abstractly. But with that having been said, are you talking about something like this?

Multiple Choice Dragon Game | Choice of the Dragon

-KS