Licensing, OGL and Getting D&D Compatible Publishers Involved

[Warbringer]

It'd be pretty embarrassing if they didn't outsell a game not currently being produced.

I'm all for the OGL (obviously - I publish with it) but I think it benefits me a lot more than it benefits WotC.

I wonder how much the initial logic of the OGL holds true, namely "Core books generate most of the profit in the RPG industry" and anything that encourages core sales id good. That initial analysis was based on a 1990s revenue model, and i'm sure it held true through early 2000s. With subscription models and print on demand I wonder if that is true today?

Add to this the simple fact that Paizo is WoTC largest competitor with arguably their own product, the fiasco with Sweetpea over movie rights, the mess that needed to be untangled with Atarii on the digital, I wonder does WoTC even have the appetite to even consider anything that complicates the management of the brand?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I first want to say there is NO EVADANCE that Piazo every outsold WotC... it is a common belief, one I am not sure if is right or not, but no one will ever really know, and lots of Wotc haters will not even try to talk it out. For now lets just agree to disagree on that...

next up is weather the OGl could help Wotc... lets start with does anyone really believe it is going to increase the amount of public know of the largest name in gameing?

I like the idea of a set of licenses 1) a fan/low level one. As long as you are not selling your product for money you can post and use and XYZ legal things. 2) if you want to sell then you can pay a small fee and WotC has the right to edit for content...

 

[Warbringer]

I first want to say there is NO EVADANCE that Piazo every outsold WotC... it is a common belief, one I am not sure if is right or not, but no one will ever really know, and lots of Wotc haters will not even try to talk it out. For now lets just agree to disagree on that...

next up is weather the OGl could help Wotc... lets start with does anyone really believe it is going to increase the amount of public know of the largest name in gameing?

I like the idea of a set of licenses 1) a fan/low level one. As long as you are not selling your product for money you can post and use and XYZ legal things. 2) if you want to sell then you can pay a small fee and WotC has the right to edit for content...

It's based on distribution rankings published quarterly, which is a good indicator as WotC does not sell direct, while Paizo does. This means the number actually underestimate when and by how much Paizo product began to outsell 4e, which I think started Q4 2011.

 

[Alzrius]

Notably SKR who was cited in the post I was replying to.

It's difficult to take your assertions seriously if you think that Sean K Reynolds is a third-rate game designer, especially given that you seem to be predicating that on the basis of you disagreeing with him over the comparative value of two feats.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

It's based on distribution rankings published quarterly, which is a good indicator as WotC does not sell direct, while Paizo does. This means the number actually underestimate when and by how much Paizo product began to outsell 4e, which I think started Q4 2011.

so lets try this again... we don't have real data. We have a self regulated third party that only measures a small percentage of the market and extrapolates... and even then we have WotC #1 for X months and #2 for Y where Y is way more months that Wotc put on no new products, and WotC was trying out a new business model (DDI).

I hate to have this argument again, but the numbers are so far from conclusive it isn't even funny. Someone had the quarters maped out along with products put out in each quarter and said it totally proving Piazo only once really beat WotC, then someone else posted something proving that the reason for 5e is because Piazo was outselling wotc... yes same numbers proved exact opposite results.

 

[Wicht]

I didn't say Paizo was third rate and didn't intend to imply it. Notably Eric Mona and Lisa Stephens may just be the two best people in the RPG industry at what they do. What I said was that they were picking up third rate talent from WotC. Notably SKR who was cited in the post I was replying to.

Eh, you're not helping yourself. Either you are claiming that the two best people in the RPG industry lack the ability to hire real talent, or you are just making a personal attack against Mr. Reynolds based on a rules disagreement.

 

[Wicht]

I first want to say there is NO EVADANCE that Piazo every outsold WotC... it is a common belief, one I am not sure if is right or not, but no one will ever really know, and lots of Wotc haters will not even try to talk it out. For now lets just agree to disagree on that...

The announcement of 5e seems like evidence of something. And even before that the ICV2 evidence was scarcely the only indicator of which way the wind was blowing.

next up is weather the OGl could help Wotc... lets start with does anyone really believe it is going to increase the amount of public know of the largest name in gameing?

yes


edit: let me add that I think it is scarcely "hating" on WotC to suggest they could perform better in the market if they utilized the OGL. I do believe that Paizo is outperforming WotC and will continue to do so over the long haul until WotC changes their RPG model. That is scarcely hate; it is to the contrary, evidence of desiring the best for them and suggesting a possible path to better performance.

 

[Morrus]

Folks, we are NOT going to insult individual designers here.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

The announcement of 5e seems like evidence of something. And even before that the ICV2 evidence was scarcely the only indicator of which way the wind was blowing.

onc again the evadance is just enough that you can read it either way.

edit: let me add that I think it is scarcely "hating" on WotC to suggest they could perform better in the market if they utilized the OGL. I do believe that Paizo is outperforming WotC and will continue to do so over the long haul until WotC changes their RPG model. That is scarcely hate; it is to the contrary, evidence of desiring the best for them and suggesting a possible path to better performance.

I on the other hand belive that paizo is keeping up with WotC by cashing in on WotC biggest mistake (the ogl) and piggy backing on there work. Weather you personally are part of the hatedome of WotC I don't know (I don't really follow who is who) but ALOT of people use this as a way to edition war or worse...

 

[Morrus]

I call strawman.

Pathfinder was outselling 4e before 5e was announced.

I think that's likely true (anecdotal evidence certainly supports it) and I also agree that the OGL is partly responsible for Paizo's success - though I think they'd have been successful whether Pathfinder was based on 3.x or not because they're a well-run company - but I think dislike of 4E was the biggest driving factor in splitting the fan base. OGL usage falls far behind that in contributing factors.