Lich and LA

[Dekana]

My 12th level Human Druid recently became a Lich in a campaign I'm playing in. On acquiring the Lich template - or any acquired template for that matter - should I add the Level Adjustment to the character? Or does that only apply if the character starts off as a Lich? And if I do, how does that affect the current experience total of the Druid?

I thought the price of 120,000gp and 4,800 was harsh enough, but now that I really see how many benefits I get (15 DR, a lot of immunities, paralysis touch attack), I'm beginning to think I got too good of a deal for it to be fair in the game.

And while I'm on the subject:

Libris Mortis has a feat named Corrupted Wildshape, which mentions:

Since it is based on the polymorph spell, wildshape works only on living creatures.

I thought wildshape is based on alternate form, not polymorph?

Is there any reason I can't use the Lich's touch attack on the Lich? It's negative energy so it should heal.

 

[Maleketh]

First off, wild shape. It used to be based on polymorph, but it is now an alternate form ability and thus works for undead.

As for applying LA, there are no official rules of which I'm aware for this sort of thing. Therefore, I advise checking this. It contains a lich template progression, by which you gain all the template's benefits and LA over the course of several experience levels. A buddy of mine is using the same thing for his ghost character, and the idea of growing into your new form both makes sense and works well from a game balance perspective.

Finally, the touch attack. Unlike, say, inflict spells, the attack makes no mention of being usable to heal undead, so I'd say no - that application strikes be as a little proken, anyway. Talk to your DM, though.

 

[moritheil]

Unless the DM grants you a nice, smooth progression, you suddenly become 4 levels higher than the rest of the party. Also, unless you are following an unusual nature deity, being undead is probably offensive to your divine patron, so you might have to seek out a new source for your spells.

I have seen the "lich touch heals itself" argument both ways; check with your DM.

Lib Mortis is 3.0, and wild shape was polymorph-based in 3.0.

 

[Maldor]

Lib Mortis is 3.0, and wild shape was polymorph-based in 3.0.

Lib Mortis is 3.5 wildshape was based off of polymorph for most of 3.5

i always thought that LA 4 was rather high for lich and if you have to pay for it to ouch
i would say +1 or +2 if he coughed up the XP and gold

now here is something i have wondered on what about the 20th level ability of a dread necromancer i seems very harsh and unfair to give a +4 LA to someone just for leveling in their class plus it negates many of your other class feuture

P.S. is this guy some kind of blighter most druids even evil oes dislike the unnaturalness of undead

 

[Nordic Birch]

My 12th level Human Druid recently became a Lich in a campaign I'm playing in. On acquiring the Lich template - or any acquired template for that matter - should I add the Level Adjustment to the character? Or does that only apply if the character starts off as a Lich? And if I do, how does that affect the current experience total of the Druid?

The LA comes with the template. No difference if you start out with it or get it in game, except that usually a beginning partys ECLs are balanced against each other. You're now a 12th level Druid who counts as 16th level for CR evaluation, experience gain and level up. So you have the xp you had before (minus what the template cost) but you won't level until you get enough xp for 17th level and you'll get less xp from the enemies since you're considered higher level. The benefits of a Lich are nice right now but might not seem so great as you stay 12th level while others level up and when the rest of your group is 16-17 level and you're still 12-13...

 

[Nordic Birch]

now here is something i have wondered on what about the 20th level ability of a dread necromancer i seems very harsh and unfair to give a +4 LA to someone just for leveling in their class plus it negates many of your other class feuture

Well, it's 20th level so most campaigns are winding down but IIRC the DN transformation is without the LA cost.

From the DN Handbook
"Lich Transformation: According to Wizards Custserv [Incident: 070501-000021], you do not gain the Lich template with this ability . You do gain the undead template and have lich like class abilities."
As usual, Wizards people are not very good at being clear but the idea seems to be that DN wasn't meant to be penalised with LA for the classes capstone ability.

 

[Dekana]

Thanks everyone. I'll check with the DM to see if paying the gold and xp might have been worth an LA or two, but I'll add some (if not all 4) for sure.

As for the background: the druid has been isolated in her forest for a very long time. She hates the undead, but is willing to become one (for eternity) rather than leave her domain unprotected on her natural death. Plus, she is very evil and unfriendly - if not outright hostile - to most sentient beings. Sort of like an overly militant Greenpeace member who places more value on the lives of animals than of herself or other humans.

Edit: My DM made a ruling about the negative energy touch attack which I thought was very cool. And since it came in an e-mail... copy/paste!

Healing yourself with negative energy- yes to start, but eventually no. Being able to use negative energy in unlimited quantities makes you a conduit for negative energy. By trying to heal yourself you start to cause a feed-back effect. There is a 10% chance that you will cause twice the damage you would otherwise heal, to yourself and anyone adjacent to you (5'). This damage would not be negative energy but 1/2 fire, 1/2 sonic. There is a hum that quickly cresendo's just before the explosion so those adjacent to you who know what it is are allowed a reflex roll (DC = 18 same as your other effects) for 1/2, you are not. As with all overloaded conduits, they get worse over time. Each time you heal yourself, successfully or not, the chance for feed-back increases 10%. When your body is destroyed, and you are re-formed, the % is re-set as you are a new conduit again.

 

[eamon]

Well, it's 20th level so most campaigns are winding down but IIRC the DN transformation is without the LA cost.

From the DN Handbook
"Lich Transformation: According to Wizards Custserv [Incident: 070501-000021], you do not gain the Lich template with this ability . You do gain the undead template and have lich like class abilities."
As usual, Wizards people are not very good at being clear but the idea seems to be that DN wasn't meant to be penalised with LA for the classes capstone ability.

Similarly, a Dragon Disciple becomes a half-dragon, but does not need to pay the level adjustment - he payed for it via levelling in the class.

 

[s-dub]

How exactly did you become a lich anyways?