Light and Invisibility

[Hypersmurf]

While a light source can be made invisible, it still sheds light, according to the Invisibility spell description.

So if you're holding a lantern and turn invisible, you have an apparently-floating point in space that casts light as a lantern.

If you close the shutter on the lantern - so that if it were visible, it would not be casting light - does the light still shine through? Or can invisible light not pass through an invisible shutter?

You can "hide" an object in an invisible pocket, making it effectively invisible, so there's precedent for invisible things blocking line of sight... sort of.

Same question for hiding a light stone in an invisible pocket.

Likewise, for magic weapons that glow... the description states that the light cannot be shut off, nor concealed when the weapon is drawn. If the weapon is sheathed, but the sheathe is invisible, does the light shine through?

-Hyp.

 

[clark411]

If we say that Invisibility makes opaque objects transparent, then the lantern light would appear through the shutters. The light being given off from it isn't really that much different from the light we see being reflected off the walls behind the invisible people. Light passes through the invisible shutters, and tadow, floating lantern light.

If we say "hey it's magic" then whatever the DM cares to think.

 

[Dingleberry]

IMC, I treat covering a light source (covering a lantern, sheathing a glowing sword, wrapping an everburning torch, etc.) while invisible like picking up an object and tucking it away, i.e., the light is then blocked. To do otherwise would make invisibility a much more difficult spell to manage, as it seems every PC eventually carries one or more items that glow - as do significant NPCs.

 

[BeauNiddle]

If you close the shutter I'd say there is no light visible (either to see by or to be spotted by). It's the simplest ruling.


If you want a bad science explanation then say that invisibility doesn't make opaque things transparent, instead it creates a 'bubble' around the recipent and light either bends round it or quantum tunnels through it rather than travelling in the more standard straight lines it is known for. Inside the bubble normal rules of science are followed. With the shutter open the photons from the lamp leave the bubble and so are visible, with the shutter closed nothing leaves the bubble hence nothing is visible.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If you want a bad science explanation then say that invisibility doesn't make opaque things transparent, instead it creates a 'bubble' around the recipent and light either bends round it or quantum tunnels through it rather than travelling in the more standard straight lines it is known for. Inside the bubble normal rules of science are followed. With the shutter open the photons from the lamp leave the bubble and so are visible, with the shutter closed nothing leaves the bubble hence nothing is visible.

The bad science explanation doesn't work if you have a lantern with a glass window, though. The light would, in theory, get stuck inside the bubble... even though it can go through the glass when the glass is visible

-Hyp.

 

[dcollins]

If you close the shutter on the lantern - so that if it were visible, it would not be casting light - does the light still shine through? Or can invisible light not pass through an invisible shutter?

My ruling is that when shut, no light comes out of the lantern (invisible or not). As you say, this is consistent with language about hiding things in pockets while invisible.

As an aside, the way I adjudicate it, there is no "point of light" visible, either (when invisible & unshuttered). You can't see the light source, but you can see that there's a space lit up. Short story: no need to pick the space to attack, but still suffer from 50% miss chance.

As a further aside into House Rules-dom, I generally don't like the notion where invisibility makes you transparent even to yourself. I'd be more comfortable with an Odyssey-style invisibility where you're apparently surrounded by a cloud that no one else can detect (so you can see yourself, your gear, read scrolls, etc.)

 

[Hypersmurf]

As an aside, the way I adjudicate it, there is no "point of light" visible, either (when invisible & unshuttered). You can't see the light source, but you can see that there's a space lit up.

With something like a Light spell, I'd agree... but something like a candle definitely gets noticeably brighter towards the centre. I'd think an invisible candle would still have a flame-shaped centrepiece, somehow.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure how one would go about testing this to see for oneself

But yeah, in general, if someone's invisible but carrying, I'd consider them pinpointed with total concealment.

As a further aside into House Rules-dom, I generally don't like the notion where invisibility makes you transparent even to yourself.

Wellll... while I do like the notion, and it's how I rule, there is room to call visible-to-oneself 'interpretation', not a house rule. Some of the language used in some of the invisibility spells - while never actually stating that the creature can see itself - suggests that the designers were making that assumption at the time.

-Hyp.